DSL-N :: Move from DSL-N rc4 to DSL-N 1.0

With all respect, lucky13, I think you have deliberately misconstrued my arguments extensively in your last reply.

Rather than respond, I'll just leave my posts to stand for themselves.

Quote (dougz @ Mar. 15 2007,16:57)

With all respect, lucky13, I think you have deliberately misconstrued my arguments extensively in your last reply.

Rather than respond, I'll just leave my posts to stand for themselves.

Deliberately misconstrued extensively where and how, lol? I don't think I misconstrued anything, much less extensively. And damn sure not deliberately, lol!

On one hand you call something "idiosyncratic bloat" and with the other you insist DSL-N should have it to compete for a bigger slice of the small Linux pie as people migrate away from WinME and XP. Fluxbuntu already has the bleeding edge-release apps (or closer to them) you suggested DSL-N should have. This accounts for a good bit of Fluxbuntu's larger size. Nevermind the fact that it includes GCC, rox, and other things that are kind of beneficial for using (especially when it comes to converts from Windows) and even building a system (ever find a good use for GCC? I sure have). I guess "idiosyncratic bloat" -- your term -- is as subjective as "plain old bloat." Please illuminate me on the difference in your definitions sometime.

We can do this one hand-other hand thing again. On one hand you dismiss Fluxbuntu but on the other you say you want everything it has. The latter point is why I said it would probably be easier to rebuild DSL-N from scratch using Ubuntu if you want to use Ubuntu's repositories, automatix, etc., instead of using Knoppix and the Debian pools. Or DSL-N could just pick up the Fluxbuntu torch and carry it a while if the direction you think DSL-N should go is the direction the developers decide to take it. What were your criteria again? Based on fluxbox, fully Ubuntu-friendly, bleeding edge kernel, ready to use automatix, etc. That's Fluxbuntu!

I left one thing alone in that regard. The Knoppix versus Ubuntu base issue you raised is really only relevant to the extent that you want something that uses automatix and Ubuntu repositories instead of or along with apt-get/synaptic/aptitude -- not "superficialities" over which base either set of developers choose for their distros (maybe you misunderstood me and my point). Why totally rebuild an Ubuntu-friendly system atop Knoppix? I'm sure it can be done, but it would be a hell of a lot easier to start with an Ubuntu base and strip it down -- especially if you want to use Ubuntu's non-Debian-stable repositories. So we're right back to the previous paragraph: most of the work for what you say DSL-N should be is already done in Fluxbuntu. And all of that really does matter since DSL-N (edit: on a hard drive) would get a bit of a "facelift" every time some ambitious, enterprising newb ends up unintentionally upgrading 50% of DSL-N's (Knoppix 4.0.2's) libs just to install some peculiar little bleeding edge 200kb app he sees in the repository and decides he just has to have it on his computer and then gets upset with DSL because of all the broken dependencies that cause his system to go haywire (do newbs know that some of their old apps may not run if they upgrade dependencies without some degree of caution? who will tell them? automatix?).

It's unfortunate you've chosen to avoid the discussion after starting it. Like I wrote, it's all in the execution. I really don't think I missed anything you wrote. I've only stated my disagreement openly and, I think, pretty clearly and given you plenty of detail of where and why I disagree. I'm not deliberately twisting anything to state why I disagree with you. Don't make it personal like that.

My Toshiba P-III-m 700Mhz came with Windows Me, but I preferred Windows 98 so I put that on it. I spent ages finding the sound driver that worked. Last week I accidentally deleted that sound driver from a USB stick. I downloaded the 'latest' Windows 98 driver from Toshiba & that didn't work. I tried a few other pucker drivers to no avail. And then I decided, blow it. All I really use Windows for is Adobe Photoshop, but recently I've been thankful for Gimpshop, oh & I started out learning Dreamweaver via 1.2.
I'm no developer & the extent of my programming ability is about if else, and I've been having fun with Linux for about 3 1/2 years now, reached a level of familiarity/competence, blow it, I've ditched Windows.

The reason I came to Linux in the first place is absolutely thus: speed.
I believe all that virus racket slows down your surfing so you spend more money on dial up. Life is short.

A good friend of mine's analogy of XP & changing your sound card is like you go to the mall & buy yourself a new TV & you get home & put your key in the front door lock & you can't get into your house.
My analogy of Vista (even though I've only glanced at it in the media for about 20 seconds,) is like you can't get in your house because Vista doesn't like your handwriting on a piece of paper in your pocket.

I wonder if we'll be still using the mouse in 2050, then again Confucius say the rat is a strong organism, first of the twelve animals in Chinese occult theory. At the end of time it'll be gonorrhoea (US gonorrhea,) & the cockroach!
I think touchscreen tft's are a little expensive, considering that they've been around for more than three decades, to the point where reliability is unassailable. Nevertheless I'm gonna git one next paycheck or three cos I got myself a mini-itx for a song the other day & a carputer will be useful for my employments.

No doubt I'll spin Knoppix first to try & get that lot working.
I aesthetically like Xfce & played with Slax a little, but threw the towel in cos cd-roms kept failing & I found the forum to be unfun & unhelpful (God I'm using Orwell Newspeak - unfun (although unfunny is in oldspeak.))

So that's it.
Like I said, I use that Knoppix tool.
Tremendous gratitude to DSL, it's unbloat & phenomenal forum are instrumental in my learning curve, got to a point in the curve now where I am able to ditch Windows, never been a conscious desire, just reacted to unworking sound driver from Toshiba which I PAY MONEY for.
And I run Sarge & now Etch, currently TRYING to play a regular audio cd in xfce. Cryptic insight required in Linux to auto-mount cd/dvd never ceases to amaze me! Having fun.

Ade, ya.hellenic

I would like to see DSL-N move forward, of course, and I would also like it to remain true to the DSL heritage of resource friendliness as well as relatively small size rather than be a full blown Linux live cd. You can't have both at the same time and there are already enough full size live cd's out there in my opinion.

Quote (Jason W @ Mar. 18 2007,23:42)

I agree with you, Jason. It doesn't make much sense to me to have DSL-N take off in a completely different direction, such as using Ubuntu as a base (which makes a lot more sense than updating Knoppix 4.0.2 to use Ubuntu's repositories more seamlessly as the other user wanted) or even pkgsrc as I suggested. I figure it would be easier to make a spartan install that leaves just enough for a user to have a clean base on which to build whatever, and do it on the bleeding edge (or pretty close, especially compared to Debian's repositories).

I worked on that a little this weekend. Nutshell: I didn't get far due to the NCAA Tournament (#%@ USC!) and my decision that I'd much rather strip down Knoppix to leave the bits I'd need for pkgsrc than add it back in and restrip DSL-N of stuff that would eventually be upgraded, isn't needed for such a system, etc. I posted a (lack of) progress report:
http://lucky13.blogsavy.com/2007/03/18/progress-report-10/

Last night I decided that it would be easier to just use a standard distro -- such as Slackware (which I've installed over Kubuntu and am now using with pkgsrc) or Debian or one of the BSDs -- for something like that than to build it atop a hard drive install of a live CD that would have to be restripped anyway. That's too much work when there are already much better solutions like Voltalinux and Bluewall already using Slack and Debian (respectively) with pkgsrc, not to mention the other OSes that can use pkgsrc.

If people want Ubuntu-like systems and want to use the Ubuntu repositories, it's a free download and they'll even send you a free CD. I would be disappointed if DSL-N turned into some branch of Ubuntu -- DSL-N deserves its own niche and should remain true to the spirit of DSL. Since there was nobody who expressed any interest and it's really not the kind of thing I'd use with DSL or DSL-N, I'm going to abandon this and stick with what already works for me.

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