My beef with DLS 8.0
Forum: User Feedback
Topic: My beef with DLS 8.0
started by: THEBINARYMAN
Posted by THEBINARYMAN on Aug. 30 2004,18:53
Ok guys, I don't mean to criticize the lastest version of DSL, I know you guys work hard on it and all and you have been doing great!!But this time you blew it! The modifications you made were a step in the WRONG direction.
The boot up system for starts, rather than stick with the battle-tested Boot.img approach you used some new tech that has been proven to not work at all for newbies or even to those who are savvy enough.
I know you guys wanted an updated kernel and all, but personally. If a system isn't broken and works pretty damn well, don't fix it.
As for the rest. Well, the thing is I liked about DSL was it's DAD approach (DAD= Down and Dirty). This isn't DAD, it's GAG (Guaranteed to Agravate the Geek).
But that's not to say it doesn't have it's strong points. I like the rest of the updated scripts. It rocks. But guys, that boot sequence, that's about 32 flavours of frustration.
Personally, I'll stick to 7.3 until I see something better. It's ok, don't be discouraged, even the best screw up once in a while.
TBM
Posted by laughing_gas on Aug. 30 2004,19:54
Re: DAD vs. GAGboot 'dsl xsetup'
Posted by BigKen on Aug. 31 2004,00:48
I'll have to agree with THEBINARYMAN. I've been a proud user of Damn Small Linux since 0.4.8 on my IBM 380D. I think you guys have done an excellent job. I try to tell everyone about Damn Small Linux. But, I've never had a problem until this release, version 0.8.0. I'm getting the following message:ISOLINUX 2.04 (Debian, 2003-06-06) isolinux: Image checksum error, sorry...
Boot failed: press a key to retry...
It works on my other computers except my old laptop. I have no choice but to stick with 0.7.3. By the way, I like Damn Small Linux better than DSL.
Posted by cbagger01 on Aug. 31 2004,01:48
FYI,Damn Small Linux is based on the Knoppix livecd.
The Knoppix livecd is a dynamic project that changes constantly as new advances are made in the Linux kernel and also in order to support new generations of hardware like the latest wireless lan cards.
Unfortunately, the Knoppix team has recently switched to ISOLINUX as the bootloader because there were major problems with SYSLINUX (used in older versions of Knoppix and DSL) for many users of newer computers.
In order for DSL to stay on top of new hardware support, they must keep current with the knoppix base or switch to some other equivalent base.
The downside of this is that ISOLINUX does not work right with some older computers so we are trapped between a rock and a hard place.
I believe that the correct course of action is to move ahead and pay the price of the loss of some backwards compatibility.
Users of these computers can still download and burn a copy of 0.7.3 so they are not completely abandoned.
There may yet be a solution to the ISOLINUX dilemma. Have you tried the "poorman's install" alternative?
Another possibility is to try a floppy bootloader like smart boot manager.
Hopefully a solution is achievable.
Posted by DonttPanic on Aug. 31 2004,01:55
I personally believe the upgrade of the kernel was a step in the right direction. Just as one example, there is added support for hyper-threading processors. DSL is not only designed for old computers with minimal resources. It can be used in fast machines, and when running from RAM, DSL is simply amazing. Keep in mind, this is the first version of DSL to run from this kernel, so there will be bugs and other problems. Your input with problems can help in the development and improvement of DSL.I, too, am going to stick with 0.7.3 for now because in 0.8, I was experiencing issues with the .uci extensions with the HD install. It seemed that after rebooting, I would have to "mount" the uci again to be able to access the program. The only program that I tried this with, however, was Firefox.
Posted by cbagger01 on Aug. 31 2004,02:05
If you are doing this with a full hdinstall, you should be able to manually install the *.uci files to your hard disk. Assuming that *.uci are similar to *.ci, then this should work in theory, but keep in mind that I have not tried it yet:(1) Rename the uci file to a slightly different name, say "firefox1.uci"
(2) Boot up and mount the *.uci with emelfm.
(3) Open an xterm and type:
sudo su
mkdir /opt/firefox
cp -a /opt/firefox1/* /opt/firefox/
exit
(4) Then unmount the *.uci file. It should be no longer needed.
Hopefully I got the cp copy command correct, you may need to tweak it a little bit but you get the general idea.
Hope this helps.
Posted by roberts on Aug. 31 2004,02:16
Why would someone would go to the trouble to "install" a cloop application whether it is .ci or .uci to a hard drive. If you have a hard drive, use the package management system that is available. You can use apt or Synaptic, so easy. It is better to have a package managment system when available. The extensions were designed for those running liveCD or other compressed image versions.
Posted by mpie on Aug. 31 2004,04:00
apt-get is not working as well as it was they have changed, their repositories wich is now making things trickier......an example is the syanptic script no longer works.....
also other parts such as the mentors.debian.net are no longer usable with the synaptic.dsl..........
for some programs there are so many files to remember......
Posted by roberts on Aug. 31 2004,04:49
We are getting a little off topic here, but...If you want to have your ci (0.7.x) or uci (0.8.x) mount at boot time for a hard drive installed system, then add mydsl-load path_to_your_ci/filename.ci to your /opt/bootlocal.sh
Back on topic:
The main reason the Knoppix went to isolinux is for more room.
Syslinux represented a boot floppy image and in order to support more hardware at boot time, there is simply not enough room in 1.44MB. I know, as I am sure they know, that there are other variations for syslinux. Using isolinux breaks this floppy size limitation. That is how Knoppix and other 3.4+ based distros support more boot time hardware.
Now if you are getting a checksum error, I think that should indicate a local error, dirty cdrom reader, or possible bad or marginal burn. We were getting this "problems" at the last release too. I am not saying isolinux solves everything, but it sure allows us developers more room to be creative.
Posted by iscraigh2 on Aug. 31 2004,04:58
Strangely I get this error in Virtual PC when adding Firefox to the ISO. I tried adding the .uci, .ci, .Tar. the result was always the same error. works fine on 7.3 works fine with other extensions just not firefox. makes me go Hmmmm
Posted by John on Aug. 31 2004,05:56
Re:What the hell?I am convinced that no matter what choices we make with DSL it will be impossible to please everyone. Last time there was a thread about how we 'blew it' for not using isolinux.
Posted by iscraigh2 on Aug. 31 2004,06:35
JohnDon't think you blew it at all I am probably in the wrong forum for my problem but I noticed in this thread someone else had the booting problem too. Is it just an unsupported hardware thing?
Posted by clivesay on Aug. 31 2004,13:34
I would encourage everyone to be patient. Things will shake out and all will be right with the world again. There may be some machines that will only be able to handle 0.7.3. That is just one of the necessary evils of software in general. It's just impossible to have a solution for every possible hardware configuration out there.Just for some perspective, I remember when 0.5.3 was considered the last "good" version of DSL by many users..........
Posted by clacker on Aug. 31 2004,17:18
Is it possible to remaster DSL 0.8.0 using syslinux instead of Isolinux? The whole thing isn't as easy as two versions, is it? I mean, can vmlinuz be replaced with a renamed linux24 from the new distro's boot.img, and miniroot.gz with the new version minirt24? Then the kernal would be correct for all of the applications. I can mount the 0.7.3 boot image using:mount -ro loop /cdrom/KNOPPIX/boot.img /mnt/floppy
mkdir test
cp -rp /mnt/floppy/* test
umount /mnt/floppy
and change the contents of that directory. Does anyone know how to repackage the boot.img file once I make changes to it? If I could do that, why couldn't I take the KNOPPIX directory from 0.8.0 and the boot.img and cat files from 0.7.3 and get the best of both worlds (for those who need it)?
Posted by THEBINARYMAN on Aug. 31 2004,17:55
I see your point. However, rather than sit still and just voice my disatisfaction, I did the typical geek thing.I hacked. Here's what I did;
1) I downloaded the 0.8.0 iso image and the boot.img (The 0.80) version
2) Extracted the files to a folder and removed the "boot" folder from the equation.
3) made a boot floppy with rawrite.
4) used the floppy as part of the burning of a bootCD
5) Added the "Knoppix" and "Lostandfound" and other folder containing the usual goodies that I like to include
6) burned the CD.
*Note; If that solution looks amateurish, it's only because I am learning about hacking images. It also may bring to light a solution or inspire a solution to the problem.
BTW, it worked for me and I got my hacked version of 0.8.0 going. I am rather proud of that trick.
So this tells me one thing, If we are to go into that direction, Do include the components to make it so that we can make it still compatible with the older hardware.
That way we get the best of both worlds. I will repeat the operation to see if it wasn't a fluke. When I know it's good enough, I'll share the iso with the rest of yah (unless someone can do it sooner. it's not that complicated I think).
TBM
Posted by roberts on Aug. 31 2004,18:01
If you want to remaster a syslinux version, I would use the boot-0.8.0.img file. That boot image is already stripped to fit on 1.44MB. Note that the isolinux size is about 1.7MB. So you can see you are losing functionality. Then remaster a syslinux version with that boot.img. Doing so, it will be limited in the boot hardware available. I would first test by trying to boot the target hardware with the boot-0.8.0.img floopy. If it works then the syslinux remaster should as well. Trying to mix 0.7.3 and 0.8.0 cloops are different and much more work.
Posted by THEBINARYMAN on Aug. 31 2004,18:12
It's a confirmed!! I pulled it off!!And this thing is running smoothly using the method I had thought true.
So there you go guys. I look at what else has been suggested and glad to see that great minds do think alike.
Yes, we lose functionality BUT when you think about it, does the functionality that is lost is of any relevance to older hardware?
Like I said. Just leave the components so we can replace the boot-up and things shouldn't be too much of a fuss. I mean having both options doesn't hurt.
TBM
Posted by roberts on Aug. 31 2004,18:53
That's why the boot floppy for 0.8.x is there, so support the older hardware. Glad to see you made it work for you. Just curious, what are the specifics for you boot cdrom device? It must be an older, much older, one. So we can learn what cdrom drive(s) have the boot issue.
Posted by invi[tus on Sep. 05 2004,20:43
booting 0.80 is not hard at all here is what i did to get my usb drive booting 0.80 with syslinux. and retain the hardware dection.
these are windows instructions - sorry.
download boot.img and extract with winimage to thumbdrive.
install syslinux onto the thumbdrive via the following cmd, syslinux.exe -s X: (replace X with drive letter)
put in your 0.80 cd.
now copy the \boot\isolinux\minirt24.gz to the root of your thumb drive.
now copy the \knoppix directory to the thumb drive
your done. syslinux boot with all the new hardware support
now creating an iso image is alittle different but the same idea.
all you would need is iso software the can create a boot image from a removable disk
or create a virtual 2.88mb floppy drive, follow the above steps (minus the \knoppix directory)
then load magic iso pull the boot image from your fake floppy (making sure to set it to 2.88mb floppy.)
then add the \knoppix and create your cd...
ill test this out when i get home and if i can get it working ill create an iso and post it on my website ..
also... anyone know when they are gonna fix nick registering ?
=P
Posted by ico2 on Sep. 06 2004,12:31
how about including both so that ppl with old machines can edit the iso and change the boot file?
Posted by iscraigh2 on Sep. 18 2004,05:33
Ok My methodI downloaded the 8.0 boot image
Used ultra ISO to extract the 8.1.1
used ultra Iso to import the Knoppix and lostandfound folder to a new ISO
used ultra iso to load the boot8.0.img
add the optional folder and the .dsl's I wanted and presto an 8.1.1 cd that boots on my older hardware.