DSL is exactly what I need except ONE thing !!!

Forum: User Feedback
Topic: DSL is exactly what I need except ONE thing !!!
started by: winux

Posted by winux on Jan. 07 2006,12:10

Hi everyone

This is really a major issue for me to continue w/ DSL.

I love it running fine on an old Compaq Deskpro 199 Mhz, English language is OK for me.

BUT

I cannot go through the French Keyboard issue which is mandatory to send mails to (French) friends !!! I've read a lot of litterature. I know now that I should not go w/ iso 8859-1 which is more for Belgium.

I've tried fr-latin9, but I still cannot use the special sign letters (accentuated)

I've also tried
Ctrl+Alt+Back space
$ sudo loadkeys fr
$ startx
But still no accentuated letter

another forum recommended to go in
/etc/X11/xorg.conf to modifie the keyboard, but I couldn't find xorg.conf

why

???

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only French guy w/ this problem!!!

Again I LOVE your lite distro, everything's PERFECT for what I need (browsing on the net and read/write mails) BUT if I cannot operate the French Keyboard I'll have a real heartbreak to have to leave it unfortunatelly.

Can somebody help me?
By the way I belong to a French IT club, many people have old PCs, and I can tell you that if you help me to solve this Pb, a lot of guys will move to DSL very enthousiastically!!! I'll push them to do so.

Thx for your help

Posted by roberts on Jan. 07 2006,15:24

From your post it appears that you have only tried one french keyboard map.

fr.kmap.gz

Yet it appears that the following might be worth trying:

fr-latin0.kmap.gz
fr-latin1.kmap.gz
fr-latin9.kmap.gz
fr-pc.kmap.gz
fr-x11.kmap.gz
mac-usb-fr.kmap.gz
fr_CH.kmap.gz
fr_CH-latin1.kmap.gz
mac-usb-fr_CH-latin1.kmap.gz

These are from the standard knoppix base from which we are derived.

I would not know which one(s) work or not. Please give these a shot and let us know. Maybe we should have a poll of these french keymaps to know which one are not being used or are broken?

Posted by winux on Jan. 07 2006,16:08

Quote (roberts @ Jan. 07 2006,10:24)

Thx for your answer Robert. I thought there was something else I missed. I'm then gonna keep on trying every situation and for sure, I'll let you know about the result. For your info I already tried : latin 1 and 9, pc and X11 because the rest seems to be usb (I'm ps2) or CH (Swiss KB), but I'll try anyway, just to make sure.

If it happens none works, are you willing to bring a new pattern to cope w/ French needs ? I'm sure a great deal of the 60 million French people will love this lite s/w, as long as they can communicate w/ their own KB.

I'm gonna work now!!! using
Ctrl+Alt+Tab
$ xsetup.sh

By the way Robert, as you seem to be a quite aware guy. I've tried to modify /etc/init.d/knoppix-autoconfig whose keyboard is initiated at "us". Impossible to turn it into French, either from beaver or from vi (terminal). Any reason for that ? should I use a special priviledge? maybe all my Pbs come from that? do you agree?

Anyway Thx again for your help, bye

PS : for your info, on my other Ubuntu PC (which works perfectly w/ French KB) I've got in /etc/X11/xorg.conf (by the way I've no access to this w/ DSL, why?)
identifier: generic keyboard
driver: Kbd
option: coreKeyboard
option: KbdRules xorg
option: KbdModel pc105
option: KbdLayout fr
option: KbdVariant latin9

The only thing I don't have access to is pc105, and maybe that's the Pb, keyboard limited to 100 or less combinations. Does it seem relevant to ypu?

Posted by winux on Jan. 07 2006,17:47

Hi Robert

As promised I come back to you. Here is the result of the tests

1- azerty : there are some missing keys, not only the accentuated

2- fr: "e" w/ a stress on top (accentuated "e") is replaced by a "kind of bow" (I don't know the name in English). All the typical French characters are replaced by something else

3- fr-latin0/1/9: are the same w/ no accentuated characters displayed and no shift+key working

4- fr-pc: same as above but shift operates correctly on 90% of the keys

5-fr-X11: same as above

6- ANSI: complete mess (as I guessed)

That's it Bob, I'm afraid there's a bug somewhere because, for your info, on my other PC running Ubuntu, here is the result of /etc/X11/xorg.conf

identifier generic keyboard
driver Kbd
option coreKeyboard
option XkbRules xorg
option XkbModel pc105
option XkdLayout fr
option XkdVariant latin9

FYI, I dont have access to that file in DSL. I did not find xorg.conf, so I cannot compare especially the pc105 line which bothers me!!

Waiting for your feed back to go ahead. Thx for your time Bob

Posted by roberts on Jan. 07 2006,22:53

Sorry to hear such.
We don't use X.org or even XFree so it will do no go to compare to other distros that have such.
If you have acess to other Knoppix cdrom then I suggest to try that.
We don't make keyboard maps. But if you find one that works for you from Knoppix then I would try to include it. Let me know.
Also, maybe some other French user knows the answer, like that what was needed for proper German keyboard support.
Look inside /home/dsl/.xinitrc to see this.
Recently, a user suggested Thai keyboard maps which he found, which I was happy to include for his testing.
So whatever you can do to help other French users would be most welcome.

Posted by spock on Jan. 07 2006,23:23

Hello winux,

I'm surprised because the French keyboard works very well for me. Did you have a look at the French forum for DSL users ?

< Gravure / Utilisation de Damn Small Linux >

Cheers

Posted by winux on Jan. 08 2006,13:12

Quote (spock @ Jan. 07 2006,18:23)

Did you have a look at the French forum for DSL users ?

< Gravure / Utilisation de Damn Small Linux >

Spock: That's an excellent suggestion. I didn't even know it was existing. Thx a lot

Robert: in addition to looking at the French forum, I just loaded the French Kaella Knoppix live CD to test what you said. I'll do the 2 things in parallel and I'll let, to both of you, know the result of my search.

Thx again and have a very nice day. Today in Paris the weather is not so good !!

Posted by winux on Jan. 08 2006,15:16

for your info roberts, I just opened, on my old PC, Kaella Knoppix which is, as far as I understood, a French version of the Knoppix. The keyboard works perfectly in French.

Do you know, in that normal full Knoppix, where I could find the corresponding French keyboard map in order maybe to send it to you for testing purposes (if the French forum brings no results). You will indicate me what to do, just as you did w/ Thai keyboard!!!!

Do you think it's relevant? anyway I keep on digging on the DSL French forum. If I find a solution, I'll of course report it on that English forum to help the others.

Have a nice day

Posted by AwPhuch on Jan. 09 2006,23:58

Well I hope you find what you are looking for bud

Brian
AwPhuch

Posted by roberts on Jan. 10 2006,00:31

Quote

Do you know, in that normal full Knoppix, where I could find the corresponding French keyboard map ...

Usually in Knoppix based system I would look
/usr/share/keymaps/i386

There are usually directories by keyboard layout.
Then you can use the command
find . -name "*fr"

This will show all the keyboards that may be french.
Be sure to manually load it with the loadkeys command to be sure you have the correct one.

Then you can email to me. I will update then.

Posted by winux on Jan. 10 2006,01:17

Thx for your very constructive answer roberts. I'll try that tomorrow because yesterday I went to bed at 4:30 and today it is 2:15 French time!! Oops I love DSL but also .... my bed ... sometimes.

I'm still optimistic, w/ .... your help!!!

Take care

Posted by winux on Jan. 10 2006,10:27

Hi Robert

I sent you a mail this night regarding what I've "prepared for you !!".
My only problem is that I don't know how to send the attachments.

In the meantime, just a flavor of what I can extend to you:

the path of the kmaps on Ubuntu to show you what I've got there

I selected fr-latin9.kmap.gz for you because I'm pretty sure it's the one that works on Ubuntu
(I don't know how to check that).

I also took a picture of my keyboard to show you (just in case) where the specific keys are located.
If you have any way to compare w/ the file I'll send you, that'll be great.
Or if you tell me how to proceed myself, I'll be more than happy to make the things go ahead.

The main problems are coming from the following keys

By the way I went on your site and I saw all you did for Linux and DSL (I understand now why it's a little bit your baby!!
and it's a nice baby too), very impressive!!
The photo gallery is nice as well.

Bye

Posted by winux on Jan. 10 2006,15:46

Hi everyone, Hi Robert

I did a big step forward, but I don't know what to do w/ it!!

Actually, after reading a lot of docs (very well done in simple English), I did:

myDSL > system, in order to install xkeycaps (on the HD, I don't work w/ the live CD anymore to simplify my life).

Then, from the map, I found MY keyboard (100% compatible) and actually THE ONE of 60 millions of people (just kidding of course

!!).

Here is the result I read on the title bar:

xkeycaps ; PC105 keys, wide delete, tall enter (xfree86 ; French) keyboard (last minute correction, it's a 105 and not 102 keyboard)

So now, what can I do w/ this? can I tell the system that's the one I want?

All your feedbacks are very welcome, and maybe my old PC will be fully operational ... tonight!!

Thx for your support, have a nice day :laugh:

[I]

Posted by spock on Jan. 10 2006,16:24

Hello G�rard !

I'm writing this in DSL / Firefox with the latin-fr1 keyboard layout from Ubuntu. It seems to be a little bit bigger than the original DSL one but if Robert want to add it... I think G�rard deserves it for his enthusiasm ! There's only a small problem with these : � and � (had to reboot to type that), but I guess we can fix it with a simple xmodmap...

I still didn't get xkeycaps to do what I want though.

Thierry ��

Posted by winux on Jan. 10 2006,19:21

Terrific Thierry we're on a good track. I'm willing to participate to the test, but I need to know how you "install" keyboard layout from Ubuntu to DSL. After that, I'll be able to make all the tests of my Ubuntu pattern.

Anyway, our best hope is still Robert, allo Robert, allo, allo ... ah my cellphone is down!!!! Robert, number one of the hit parade !!! :blues:

Posted by roberts on Jan. 10 2006,19:47

allo, I am still here. Very different timezones

Plus, I must limit my visual time due to my poor health. But that is another story..
User spock wrote:

Quote

I'm writing this in DSL / Firefox with the latin-fr1 keyboard layout from Ubuntu

If you would be so kind to email me this keymap file I will gladly put it in the next RC which will be v2.2RC1 for both of you to test.
Email the file to extensions@damnsmalllinux.org

Posted by winux on Jan. 10 2006,21:35

Very happy to see you back w/ us Robert. You'll never find more motivated people!!! I understood you're in California, and w/ Paris should be 8 or 9 hours difference. I used to work w/ Asia and I had the same time zone issue.

Well, after these human considerations, let's go back to work. I propose to also send you the package which I think should be right: fr-latin9.kmap.gz. Is it the kind of package you were expecting? anyway it's very light, no Pb to send it. The only concern for you: is it a big job to insert 2 maps in order to see which one works best?

You also might have to tell me in a few words if I'll have s.t. special to do or just change the language from DSL panel > kbdconfig and startx.

There is already in DSL today a fr-latin9 which doesn't work w/ me, so we'll have to be cautious in the naming of the new one (but that's a detail)

So we'll be in competition w/ Thierry and that will be nice!!! what kmap will win?? let's wait for release 2.2. When do you expect issueing it because 2.1 has just pop-up?

Have a nice day both of you and all the nice people working hard for others' satisfaction!!

Posted by spock on Jan. 10 2006,22:39

Hello winux,

As your keyboard seems to make the most problems I would suggest before sending anything you try the keymaps from Ubuntu and also from Kaella (which is maybe even better because it's an all French distro based on Knoppix).

To try the keymaps you found is very easy : they are located in the same directory in DSL as in Ubuntu (/usr/share/keymaps/...) so if your computers are not in a network just copy the files to a floppy and then in Emelfm copy them over to DSL (If you have a frugal install these changes will be lost on reboot). For this you'll need to have your mounted floppy on the left panel in Emelfm and the destination folder opened in the right panel (you will overwrite the files).

Once you have this done just do what you did already : Ctrl+Alt+BackSpace to kill X, sudo loadkeys latin-fr0 (fr0 and fr1 seem to be the mostly used, you can try them all if you wish), try to type ��123, if this works startx, try to type the same in a terminal and then if it still works go to the DSL forum and try to type C��l, it w�rks, DSL d�finitely rocks !

Cheers and good luck

Posted by winux on Jan. 10 2006,23:25

Hi Spock

I understood everything Thx for that long explanation, but I'm stuck w/ the floppy. On Ubuntu it's easy, I've got the "my computer" icon and I find it in there, but here on DSL, I don't know where to click to mount the floppy. I did:

$ sudo mount /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy. I heard the floppy move, and then nothing.

I went to Emelfm, browsed (in left window as suggested) to /mnt/floppy, but when I clicked on the floppy, I had "permission denied" (and it had 16 bytes only, just as if it were not monted???). So I'm stuck, I don't have such an experience on DSL!!

A little more help please if you're not to bed yet!! On my part it's time to sleep. I did not sleep enough these last 3 days!!

Posted by ZOop on Jan. 11 2006,21:44

Hi guys,
congratulation for the last dsl 2.1, it's a very powerful system! Your posts are very interesting, I hope, you'll find a solution, I'm also interested.
Another point also related to french and german keyboards, which is always a mystery for me.
I am sometimes using translation services online in order to spend time for some work (example: systran). I paste a text in french in a browser's window, in order to translate it in german, I get the text translated in another window in my browser (firefox out of dsl). Yet, when I paste this last text in openoffice or flwriter, all �, �, � and other typical german signs are "translated" as ?? or ?. I tried it with Ubuntu and knoppix, no problem, the signs have been translated correctly.
I don't understand why it is so, so if you have an adviceor an answer...
thank you so much for your great work, yours

Posted by spock on Jan. 12 2006,15:24

Hello,

To have a French keyboard while waiting for the next release candidate just right click download and install this extension (takes less than 10 minutes to create. You should learn and try this also...) :

< french-keyboard.dsl >

These are the fr-latin0, 1 and 9 from Ubuntu 5.04. Latin1 works best for me, with the others the Shift key doesn't respond. As I already mentioned I cannot type � � and @. To overcome this you can fill your address book in Sylpheed or Thunderbird with the English keyboard, and then you will probably never need the @ anymore anyway. For � and � you can just create a text file with them in Ubuntu, send it to yourself by Email, and then copy paste them whenever you need them (this is not so often). Until we find something better...

For the problem with Open Office I'm sorry I have no clue. I guess in Ubuntu and Knoppix you have OO with the German language pack...

With best regards,
DSL beams me up !

Posted by ZOop on Jan. 13 2006,16:24

Hi Spoke!
great, thanks a lot for your extension, it works for me perfectly too!
Yes, I have a german version of knoppix, and I don't have the problem with it when copying and pasting from a browser window a german text in OOo. I wonder why it is not possible with DSL without having any letters not translated as french or german typical ones... let's see what's happening in the next release.
sincerely yours

Posted by winux on Jan. 13 2006,22:17

Hi Roberts

Finally I will not send you the Ubuntu fr-latin9.kmap.gz, because I unerstood Spoke already did it (0-1-9). I'm looking forward to the next release.

Thx for your great job , take care of your health.:)

Posted by roberts on Jan. 14 2006,16:54

I guess I cannot keep up with all the posts.
Maybe I am too late, but when I tried the link I get the dreaded 404 error. Please email me these verify working french keymaps.

Posted by winux on Jan. 14 2006,17:44

Quote (roberts @ Jan. 14 2006,11:54)

I guess I cannot keep up with all the posts.
Maybe I am too late, but when I tried the link I get the dreaded 404 error. Please email me these verify working french keymaps.

Hi Roberts

I'm "pleased" in a way!! you got the same Pb as I. I did not want to mention, not to be the only one w/ Pbs!!!! but now I feel free!!

I'll send you by mail the 3 latin French keyboards extracted from Ubuntu. JUST DONE . If you don't receive, just let me know.

Have a nice Sunday Roberts, here in Paris shouldn't be too bad!!! :cool:

Posted by zorglub on Jan. 26 2006,16:55

Hello,

I'm a french who discovered recently DSL (few day's ago :cool:

)

But I'm a problem with the french keyboard.

Can you help mu please ?

I download the embeded version of DSL in this site :

< http://ftp.belnet.be/packages/damnsmalllinux/current/ >

dsl-embedded.zip

But I don't think that is the last version of DSL (DSL 2.0)

Thank's a lot :;):

Posted by winux on Jan. 26 2006,18:44

Hi, go there

< http://damnsmalllinux.org/cgi-bin....98;st=0 >

and you'll find the address where to download from and all the comments regarding this release, I did one about the Fr keyboard and the conclusion is Fr-latin 1 is the best suited for French France (only 2 little blocking points that you can easily overcome)

Posted by aitor_e on Jan. 27 2006,12:17

Hi,

I have a similar problem but with Spanish. At he beginning I tried to install Debian Sarge in an IBM 300GL but it stopped mounting the cdrom and though about DSL. I wanted to use DSL to display pdfs and I was surprised when characters where not readable. I though that it was a font problem and I followed another post and configured XFree86 . I also upgraded the system to Debian Sarge but without success. Moreover I tried to apt-get install xpdf, but I found more problems. Finally, after reading this post, I think that I can have the same problem with Spanish. Any idea or solution? I think that DSL is fantastic, but it is not very useful for me until it is spanish compatible. I am sorry.

Posted by educ on Feb. 17 2006,20:12

Quote (winux @ Jan. 26 2006,13:44)

hi winux
first of all tx for pointing to latin-1 solution for french keyboard

i ve finally got "| @" WORKING!!!!!!!

but still lack of most "SHIFT+ foobar" command in dillo , BEAVER,command line
so no "/ �? ..." for me
and (i m still a linoob) no "�� ...."

ps:
i have to point that i m using VNC to acces my DSL BOX
maybe VNC not passing the good typo

cause there is no problem when i get connect to the BOX via ssh
but then i got no GUI...hard for a noobie ;-)

anyway I LOVE MYDSL BOX making me learn linux

greatings!!