DSL board broken? / posting problem
Forum: User Feedback
Topic: DSL board broken? / posting problem
started by: wbaldwin
Posted by wbaldwin on July 31 2007,03:17
This board seems to be broken. Here's some data:1. Most importantly, people register but then can't post, even after waiting weeks or months. The dates on < this list > in the Forum Rules section of the DSL wiki show this. And adding insult to injury, the dates show that some get approved shortly after registering while others who registered several months earlier still wait.
2. Many others besides the names on the wiki list have had this problem. More specifically, I've worked up a list of 53 other names, with dates, using the public information on people's member pages. I'd be happy to provide this list if anyone wants it. (There are certainly more than 53 others who are having or have had this problem; I just stopped following them all. See the note below for how to get date and member status information.)
3. < This post > is another specific example of the problem.
4. Particularly odd is the case of robertakit. She registered on May 18 and started posting on May 24. Do a search on her name and you'll find 7 threads she started, 3 in the DSL Embedded forum and 2 in the Apt-get forum, among others. You'll probably even see her name on the front page of the board. Click on her name and you'll get the message "We could not find this member in our database, it's possible that the member has been removed." Look at the threads and you'll find "Guest - Unregistered" where her name should be.
5. The statistics section at the bottom of the front page says (currently) that there are 596 registered members, but the member number of the person given there as the newest member is 18322.
6. If a person hasn't posted, the entry on their member page for their "Total Posts" says "Member has yet to post", which makes sense. But the entry in "Post Average" reads "Member has yet to post posts per day." (This is the case regardless of whether the person's status is "Awaiting authorization" or "Member".)
Especially serious is the posting problem of the first 3 items. If people have a question they can't find an answer to and can't post the question here, they'll either go elsewhere (e.g., to the DSL subforum at linuxquestions.org) or they'll give up on DSL altogether (there are plenty of other distributions). And on the other hand, if people have a contribution, bug fix, etc, but can't post it, DSL doesn't get improved (if DSL isn't interested in letting me in, why should I bother?). In any case, DSL gets diminished.
Can we figure out some good way of addressing the often long delay between registering and being approved to post?
==========================================
Note: The simplest way to get information about a person's registration date and status is to go the the bottom of the front page where the currently active users are listed and click on a member's name, which will take you to the person's member page. Alternatively, click on "View Complete List" and then on member names in the list. If a person's status is "Awaiting authorization" you'll know that they've been waiting since whatever the date was that they registered. If their status is "Member", check their "Last Post" info, which will give you an approximation of the date they became a member. If they haven't posted, figure that they became a member between whenever you last checked and whatever the current date is. To easily return to the same member page, look in the browser's location bar and note the number after MID=, then to return, click on any member name and replace that person's MID with the one you want to go to.
Posted by roberts on July 31 2007,05:01
I am forwarding this message to John, as he is the adminstrator of this board and owner of this project. I have provided suggestions as how he might handle the serious problem of spam posts that were over running the board. Since then, I cannot say how registrations are handled. I am doing all I can to be the developer of this system. I am very distressed that this situation has apparently not be addressed and so many are unable to participate.
Posted by tinker on July 31 2007,14:04
As one of those mentioned above I can only express my frustration and disappointment with the way things were handled. When the board would not allow me to post after registering, I sent an email to webmaster(at)(DSL domain) [munged to obscure, the address was correct] , it was neither bounced, nor answered. This was on May 26.
On May 28, I sent one to John(at)(DSL domain), indicating that while I showed up as "online", I was not allowed to either post or PM anyone, thus I couldn't even make anyone aware of the problem. I also indicated that this could be very bad for newbies, since they would probably just go away when they couldn't get help. Again, neither bounced nor answered.
On May 30, I searched the net and found a (lafn) address for you Robert and emailed that. It also was neither bounced nor answered.
Next, I added my nick to the wiki page in the forum rules section. That didn't seem to be noticed either, as the list kept growing. I even did some of what the OP here mentioned, looked at registration dates and noticed inconsistencies. ...and waited.
I had been lurking for months and had information that I thought would have helped a couple of regulars that were having a discussion. That was why I finally registered, I even asked in my first email for the webmaster to pass on the information I was trying to post. It was extremely frustrating not to be able to offer help. At that point, I stopped considering DSL a serious distro.
Today, July 31, I received an email informing me that I could visit the forums and "log in fully". Well, that is some cold comfort after 2 months, especially since I have been "logged in" and "welcomed" as my nick, time-after-time during the two month period. Imagine my surprise when I still saw spam posts while I was locked out. Although, I have to add, if you see this then I can also now post.
Robert, you can probably understand the frustration, as you held your polls and considered direction for DSL , for someone who liked DSL, used it, and who was not allowed to post or comment on future direction. I even previously recommended it in other forums for people with older, low ram, equipment and I think at least one of them made it here if the nick is the same as they were using elsewhere.
As an aside, I will also mention that I was considering a couple of items from the DSL store, but this experience cured me of that.
I realise that it isn't easy to run a distro with a couple of people. However, if a distro is not going to be professional about it then the project should be dropped. Before anyone jumps in here with excuses, we are *all* too busy with our lives, thus we have to scale back to what we can actually accomplish, that's the bottom line. Newbies should not be left hanging with no way (that they are likely to think of or try) to ask for help. I think this is especially true in 2007 when many are making, or trying to make, the switch from the Redmond OS. I realise DSL isn't aimed at newbies, but its ease of use does naturally attract them. There isn't any way for me to estimate how many just gave up and went away (very likely with nothing good to say about DSL). I also don't think, this is going to help book sales. Spam in the board is certainly bad, but it can be ignored and deleted, snubbed clients are not as easy to placate. Personally, I have been able to obtain the answers I needed to run DSL from the wiki, the forum archives, what I read while lurking, and reading through Robert's scripts but I can see that many people struggle with the differences in DSL, even if they have GNU/Linux experience.
I see this somewhat has the tone of a rant, perhaps I can be forgiven a small rant, given the circumstances. As with all things in life, this can be an opportunity for learning and growth.
tinker
Posted by lucky13 on July 31 2007,14:49
I can understand the frustration, but some of this is ridiculous.If you want a wiki entry for a "waiting list," don't hijack a page for forum rules. I also don't know what the concern is about the number of registered users versus member numbers since there's been a spam issue and numbers probably aren't recycled -- is that the fault of the project or of the forum software?
As much as I want to address comments about letting things affect decisions to buy products or not, I won't. But for ANYONE to suggest "the project should be dropped" just because someone can't use the forums is pretty bleeping drastic and over the top. Let the distro stand on its own merits and judge the way the forums are run independently of that.
Posted by tinker on July 31 2007,15:46
[quote lucky13] "If you want a wiki entry for a "waiting list," don't hijack a page for forum rules."If that was directed at me lucky13, I will mention that I merely added my name to the list already there as that seemed to be the best place to have it noticed, didn't hijack anything. As you can see from the rest of what I wrote, I had already tried everything I could think of to pass the information along. Even though you don't like what has been written, it still is true. And I still stand behind what I wrote, if a job is worth doing, it is worth doing correctly and criticism can be a spur to learning, it need not be a call to defensiveness.
In addition, the way a person handles one part of a business often is an indication of how the rest of a business is managed. Similar to the way the "tone" of some people's posts indicates something about their personality and methods. I mentioned that bit about the store so John could consider it if and when he reads this. I also kept this "inhouse", didn't go about the Net complaining, and I waited until I could mention it to someone who would care. I believe Robert cares about DSL.
tinker
Posted by lucky13 on July 31 2007,16:14
It was directed at whomever was the first to do it and everyone who's done it since. It's definitely hijacked -- that's the first thing on that page now and anyone who wants to see the rules has to scroll past all your names. I disagree with you that it's the first place to get noticed if for no other reason because that's the kind of page that people who are already approved to post will only visit if a question arises about acceptable content, etc.The wiki is there for knowledge, NOT for posting messages or drawing attention no matter how impatient people get or how important they think the subject. At least you wrote both developers; I suspect many others didn't.
I clearly don't see things the same way you do. I see DSL-the-distro totally separately from DSL-the-business. It didn't cost you or anyone anything to download the ISO and use it. My decision to use DSL and to be active in the community is because DSL-the-distro isn't just damn small, it's damn good. I don't have ANY hesitation in recommending it because it's good, and I wouldn't dismiss it as being not "a serious distro" (your own words) because of factors totally unrelated to what the ISO is and does. Much less suggesting its development should stop just because of an issue related to how people are approved for joining the forums.
I really can't address the "I won't shop here" remark (I want to!) even though you elaborated because it's John's business, not mine. You go ahead and do what you feel you have to, though, even if it's *just* to make a point.
Posted by clivesay on July 31 2007,17:11
lucky13, Cut these guys some slack. They have been waiting for a long time (months) and have tried to go through the proper channels. When that didn't work, they contacted me and I also forwarded the information to the appropriate people. Apparently that's helped a few people but others are still having problems. As Robert says, he's the developer and does not manage the boards.
They want to participate and feel they have been blocked out. Let them get it off their chest and not challenge them on their feelings. This is a legitimate issue that needs to be addressed.
Chris
Posted by lucky13 on July 31 2007,17:25
I already wrote I understand their frustration (see the very first sentence I wrote in this thread). I'm not making it personal or going hard. If I wanted to do that, I'd go ahead and write what I said I was withholding from commenting.What I don't appreciate is how it's being targeted, especially in the things I addressed like questioning professionalism or suggesting the project should be totally abandoned. Add to that the inability to distinguish between the project side of it and the business side. I know the backlog of people wanting to post is enormous, but I'd figure people would be relieved and/or grateful that they can finally post instead of introducing themselves by way of threats to not buy products, saying they won't recommend DSL to others, and so on.
Posted by roberts on July 31 2007,23:01
I cannot fault users for their attempt to gain access and participate in these forums. For it is the community that makes or breaks a distribution.I don't think anyone can be more upset and frustrated by this than I. I put my heart and sole into trying make DSL the best that it can be. While I enjoy development, I am treading water with all the duties that have become expected of me. I have repeatedly asked for help and participation from our owner/founder. I cannot do it all by myself.
I have sent 18 emails and several telelphone calls about this very issue. I made made several suggestions on how to handle. The last of which I was under the impression that it was easy to implement and that it would be implemented. Still no confirmation on any progess or attempt.
I believe this version of ikonboard has a bug when manually processing registration requests, in that only the first batch size selected is available. That would explain why some get approved and others do not. The lucky ones who happen to be at the top of the batch. My proposal was to not use this batch process.
I will be in San Francisco, all next week for Linux World. Perhaps a meeting will bring resolution. I am still hopeful that things will get better.
I think a quick resolution is still possible and am puzzled by why it is not.
Posted by John on Aug. 01 2007,08:42
The forum registration process should be more functional now. But if you are coming from what looks a lot like an email address that spammers seem to use you probably didn't get registered. If you applied for a registration and didn't get in try again now and follow the instructions provided.
Posted by wbaldwin on Aug. 05 2007,20:25
Thanks, John. Hopefully the previous problems are now resolved and won't reoccur -- but just in case (so people won't have to resort to desperate measures again): In the future, if after becoming a registered member and waiting a while the member should be stuck in unable-to-post limbo, is there
(1) some way the member can unregister in order to try again,
or (2) some standard approved way they can contact you (or someone) about the situation?
Posted by wirechief on Aug. 06 2007,22:56
Hmmm interesting read...
Posted by stevesr0 on Aug. 06 2007,23:33
Wow!?Today, when I launched the forum website on my computer, I was shocked to see that I was identified by my username without any request to log in. Previously, I was one of those who was supposedly registered but was seen as a guest whenever I attempted to post after logging in.
Now to see if this message is actually posted!
(Parenthetically, my impetus for registering was primarily to post a message about how much I enjoyed the way DSL worked on my old laptop.
Steve
Posted by stevesr0 on Aug. 06 2007,23:52
I just logged out and logged back in. I was told that I was logged in but when I went to look at a message, my name on the screen became guest.I was told I could sign in (or register) so I signed in again and the second time, my username came up and I am am writing this as an addendum and second test.
Steve
Posted by jpeters on Aug. 07 2007,08:22
I was wondering why the same people do most of the posting...this explains it..... 
Posted by infinitycircuit on Aug. 08 2007,07:32
Thanks a lot for finally getting this working!