DSL 3.4 or DSL 4 with a 2.6.x kernel ?
Forum: User Feedback
Topic: DSL 3.4 or DSL 4 with a 2.6.x kernel ?
started by: Key
Posted by Key on Aug. 02 2007,17:10
Now, as the first 2 alpha versions of DSL 4 have been released, there are probably more information from users available, who can't use DSL due to too new hardware which is still not supported in the current 2.4.x kernel.Maybe there were users who thought, that a newer 2.4.x kernel could help. You know that there is a much newer 2.4.x kernel in DSL 4 than in DSL 3.4 was.
There has been much discussion about before there were the first DSL 4 alpha releases (with a new 2.4.x kernel).
How do the users think now?
Still problems with SATA or newer network card hardware?
There is some discussion in the " DSL-N " forum, as well is there a poll where can be voted.
But I assume, that not all people have seen this yet.
Maybe there is a chance that more people can use DSL for the first time (when they have a quite new computer) or again (when they have upgraded to a newer computer) ?
Unfortunately not much news yet in " DSL-N ".
Posted by lucky13 on Aug. 02 2007,17:53
How about a little patience. Robert noted the lack of community interest in DSL-N and asked for help from those who want to see a second DSL version with a 2.6 kernel in the poll thread. So what are you doing to help? Did you volunteer to build a kernel? I downloaded 2.6.22.1 sources at 3:15 this morning. I don't know if I'm going to have time to mess with it between now and the end of this weekend.
Posted by Key on Aug. 02 2007,18:08
Unfortunately, I don't know much about Linux programming.Sorry for my impatience.
But when Robert has asked for help or volunteers, I didn't see much response.
Therefore I thought to ask, if there is still a chance to get a kernel 2.6.x version.
Now I know that somebody is working on it.
Thank you.
Posted by lucky13 on Aug. 02 2007,23:17
The lack of response may or may not be telling about the general consensus of the community. Look at how few people have voted in the poll in the DSL-N section.Regardless, it'll probably be some time after next week unless Robert or someone else has built a 2.6 kernel for DSL 4.
Posted by Juanito on Aug. 03 2007,05:52
For me, the big advantage of dsl-n is that various power-saving utilities work in 2.6.12 that do not work in 2.4.26 and thus my laptop lasts at least an hour longer between charges with dsl-n as compared to dsl. I had high hopes that the required functionality would have been backported to 2.4.34 (by the linux community), but it seems not...
Posted by Key on Aug. 11 2007,17:17
Any news?Maybe it would also be possible to do it by the user itself, if there is a step by step instruction available.
Yesterday I thought to switch to Puppy, but after the first boot of the latest live-CD version, I cancelled this idea again
In my opinion, DSL is much nicer.
Hope there is a 2.6.x kernel version of DSL soon.
I don't want to nerve, but I hope you understand.
Thank you
Posted by curaga on Aug. 11 2007,17:29
No-one's in a hurry, try to hang in there I'm planning to have 2.6 in my ucDSL, for other stuff to-be in it see my thread "my server is up". But it has no hurry either..
Posted by Key on Aug. 11 2007,18:08
| Quote (curaga @ Aug. 11 2007,13:29) |
| No-one's in a hurry, try to hang in there I'm planning to have 2.6 in my ucDSL, for other stuff to-be in it see my thread "my server is up". But it has no hurry either.. |
But how much time do you estimate ?
Now I have read about the possibility to install Ubuntu to an USB memory stick. I will check.
But surely it is not as easy as with DSL.
Posted by jpeters on Aug. 13 2007,07:07
| Quote (Key @ Aug. 11 2007,14:08) |
| Now I have read about the possibility to install Ubuntu to an USB memory stick. I will check. But surely it is not as easy as with DSL. |
I can eat dinner before Ubuntu finishes loading from a CD.
Edit: Grub install:
< http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=224351 >
Posted by Key on Aug. 13 2007,17:30
| Quote (jpeters @ Aug. 13 2007,03:07) | ||
I can eat dinner before Ubuntu finishes loading from a CD. Edit: Grub install: < http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=224351 > |
Right, beside some further things.
Seems there is no other possibility than to wait for a 2.6.x kernel DSL and this could take further months
99% of the users are happy with kernel 2.4.x ??
1% of the users need kernel 2.6.x due to too new hardware ??
This is like it looks for me.
Maybe I will downgrade to an ordinary IDE CD-Rom drive and an additional older network card, if there won't be any 2.6.x kernel version soon.
DSL-N is no alternative, as it is in a very early not anymore supported stage.
As already written in an earlier email:
If I would have known that there is no full support for newer network cards and SATA drives in kernel 2.4.x, I would not have voted for it.
Sorry, little bit frustrated and helpless ..
But still with hope!
Posted by lucky13 on Aug. 13 2007,17:45
| Quote |
| DSL-N is no alternative, as it is in a very early not anymore supported stage. |
I think it's still a viable option if you want a small Linux distro because it's very usable.
Posted by Key on Aug. 13 2007,17:56
| Quote (lucky13 @ Aug. 13 2007,13:45) | ||
I think it's still a viable option if you want a small Linux distro because it's very usable. |
Might be, but my mouse doesn't move at all in the current DSL-N, although there is no problem with Knoppix, Ubuntu, ..
And also consider that it is named " version 0.1 RC 4 ".
DSL 3.4 ( or even DSL 4 alpha ) with kernel 2.6.x would be fine.
DSL 3.4 is a final version and DSL 4 will be supported regulary.
We are currently living in year 2007 and USB pens with a size of 128 MB are not really expensive anymore
Posted by jpeters on Aug. 13 2007,18:04
| Quote (Key @ Aug. 13 2007,13:56) |
| We are currently living in year 2007 and USB pens with a size of 128 MB are not really expensive anymore |
My personal solution: I use DSL for almost everything because it's fast, efficient, and there's no shortage of software. Loading devices is another matter, so I have to have an XP available just for that (e.g., I just bought a Sony reader). It's a simple matter to find network cards, etc., that are supported.
Posted by lucky13 on Aug. 13 2007,18:36
| Quote |
| Might be, but my mouse doesn't move at all in the current DSL-N, |
Why not? Knoppix may be able to autoconfigure that particular mouse, but I'm willing to bet it will also work with DSL(-N) even if you have to configure it yourself. And your settings will carry over if you install it.
| Quote |
| And also consider that it is named " version 0.1 RC 4 ". |
DSL's release candidates are more stable than some distros' official releases. I'm running one "older" release candidate (from 3.2) and have an uptime of about three weeks now.
| Quote |
| We are currently living in year 2007 and USB pens with a size of 128 MB are not really expensive anymore |
I know, and I just saw 1GB sticks at Office Depot this morning for $14.99. The point about the size isn't the cost of USB sticks; it's about making something useful in a small amount of space so it can be run in various ways even on low-resource computers.
Example: I can run DSL from RAM on machines with 128MB RAM. I won't be able to do that if it bloats up to 100+ MB. And while some of you are willing to buy the latest, greatest hardware, some of us are determined to continue squeezing every bit of use out of perfectly functional hardware.
It's also about choices. You already have every distro vying to entice you and your new hardware with every fad like spinning and twisting 3d window management and super-slick graphics. It's neat. What's not so neat is how those other distros have totally abandoned users with older hardware -- which means you either need to upgrade or buy a new computer to use them. DSL is one of the only continually-developed resources (other than the BSDs) that remains an option for those of us using older hardware. DSL would become less of an option -- or our choices of how we can use it will be reduced -- if it grows beyond what our hardware can handle. Its size affects how its used: toram as well as how it fits on USB sticks.
Whatever DSL has to do to roll with the times is acceptable to me so long as it doesn't do it at the expense of what DSL has always been about. That includes supporting older hardware, and I count functional 64MB USB sticks right in there with my older computers.
Posted by Key on Aug. 13 2007,19:19
I fully agree.Nevertheless, as I'm also a Windows user, I had to build a new computer due to performance problems with my IBM Thinkpad 390E.
The ASUS Pundit is a real cheap system consisting of housing, power supply and motherboard.
As I wanted to be up-to-date, I decided for a SATA-DVD-Rom which was nearly the same price as an ordinary IDE-DVD-Rom.
I didn't want to invest in an additional network card, therefore I'm using the onboard network from the motherboard.
Maybe I will try to get the mouse running in DSL-N.
But what worries me is not only the old release candidate status but also the version 0.1.
I have tried the first alpha version of DSL 4 from an USB pen.
Beside the fact that the onboard network card has not been recognized, the mouse was working without any problem.
I didn't fully understand it yet, what it would mean, if there would be two 3.4 versions, one with kernel 2.4.x and one with kernel 2.6.x. How much time would be required to build? Could this time be estimated? Is it only a compiling with another kernel file or what special operations would have to be done? Is it a real easy task? Standard work?
Posted by jpeters on Aug. 13 2007,20:52
| Quote (Key @ Aug. 13 2007,15:19) |
| As I wanted to be up-to-date, I decided for a SATA-DVD-Rom which was nearly the same price as an ordinary IDE-DVD-Rom. Maybe I will try to get the mouse running in DSL-N. |
Although used for hardrives (SATA) , SATA-DVD's aren't used much and have a lot of compatibility issues. I'm sure it wouldn't work on my Windows 98 computer either. Re mouses, I use a logitech USB mouse, given bizarre behavior with my mousepad.
Posted by lucky13 on Aug. 13 2007,22:26
| Quote |
| As I wanted to be up-to-date, I decided for a SATA-DVD-Rom which was nearly the same price as an ordinary IDE-DVD-Rom. |
I disagree with the presumption that SATA is the only up-to-date option. I know SATA will eventually completely displace parallel ATA, but there will be continued legacy support for things that already work. There are still some things for Linux to iron out before I'd even consider it.
< http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Hardware/sata.html >
| Quote |
| But what worries me is not only the old release candidate status but also the version 0.1. |
Why would that worry you? It's just an arbitrary version number -- and in this 0.1 is more conservative than certain other distros calling their releases 2007.1, etc. Many of the apps I run are pre-1.0. Don't get hung up on a number if the product itself is stable, useful, usable, etc.
| Quote |
| Beside the fact that the onboard network card has not been recognized, the mouse was working without any problem. |
What model Asus Pundit? What did you do to see if you could get it working? Or did you only rely on the autoconfig?
| Quote |
| I didn't fully understand it yet, what it would mean, if there would be two 3.4 versions, one with kernel 2.4.x and one with kernel 2.6.x. |
Not 3.4, 4.0. I'm not sure yet if Robert wants to do that if 5.0 is going to be a full-on switch to 2.6 anyway. I mean, it could be done but that would mean DSL has this one and only version with two different kernels. It doesn't make sense to me do two versions of DSL 4.x since 5.0 isn't going to be off in the distant future. But maybe Robert wants more to deal with than he already has...
Posted by io333 on Aug. 24 2007,01:27
Gosh, I didn't know there was a v4 out there, I'll have to check it out. I wish I had time to help out over here, but I'm working 14+ hours a day now. Love DSL. My favorite OS ever... except for old Amiga, but that was over long ago 
Posted by Key on Aug. 24 2007,15:33
| Quote (io333 @ Aug. 23 2007,21:27) |
| Gosh, I didn't know there was a v4 out there, I'll have to check it out. I wish I had time to help out over here, but I'm working 14+ hours a day now. Love DSL. My favorite OS ever... except for old Amiga, but that was over long ago |
A also remember the good old Amiga times.
These days, I saw somebody writing about "CLI", a word that was very common in the past, used for the Amiga-shell from the Workbench
But now we are in the year 2007 and hopefully somebody will make a new DSL with a 2.6.x kernel soon with much better support for newer hardware.
Posted by io333 on Aug. 29 2007,03:42
I thought 2.6 is too big to make a nice distro to fit into 50 meg?
Posted by curaga on Aug. 29 2007,15:15
It is, but the size limit might change..
Posted by Key on Aug. 31 2007,05:05
Again .. sorry in advance :-)Now, as the DSL 4 development with the 2.4.x kernel has moved ahead, isn't it possible to estimate a timeframe for an upcoming DSL 5 with a 2.6.x kernel ?
What is the minimum estimated time ?
Will it take 1 month or will it take 20 months till there is the first DSL 5 pre-pre-pre-pre-alpha version with a 2.6.x kernel ?
I would be happy to have such a pre-pre-pre-pre-alpha version with a 2.6.x kernel, just in order to test, if it finally works well on newer computers.
Or any users here, that have built DSL 3.4.1 or DSL 4 with a 2.6.x kernel ?
Thanks for your understanding and sorry again.
Posted by lucky13 on Aug. 31 2007,06:34
| Quote |
| What is the minimum estimated time ? |
It'll be ready when it's ready. Look at the chart of releases and guesstimate:
< http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=damnsmall >