Couple of suggestions

Forum: User Feedback
Topic: Couple of suggestions
started by: blip

Posted by blip on Dec. 21 2007,12:57

Hi y'all
Sorry if this has been mentioned before...just food for thought....not a rant!

I was using DSL V4 today....and trying to get my wireless card going....it does seem to be a sticking point for a lot of folk in Linux but that's not Linux's fault....I'm not sure how it could be made a little easier if possible....one thing that occurred to me is that in ndiswrapper ( or in any sort of window like this) it would be nice to have a 'Browse' button when looking for your files....I think for noobs this would be a lot more friendly than typing a path. Also a wireless hotspot tool would be a boon if one exists...although to be fair if you know your SSID and wep key you shouldn't need one........

Also do you think it would be easier if someone has a USB pen in the PC that DSL mounts it automatically on the desktop as an Icon with something clear like 'USB 1gb Kingston' or something like that. I do find that (at the moment) I have to open a file window,look for 'mnt' then right click on a drive and try to mount it. The problem is I am left thinking 'do I mount sda1 or sda or sda2'...it takes a bit of brain power! I'm ok with this but maybe someone new to it might find this small thing much more of a challenge...

Personally I think the windows should open out with the icons in a structured view by default....they sometimes need a tidy a la oS 3.9 amiga when they open in default big icon view so I always change to structured view..

The biggest thing that stumps me is copying and pasting files. I suppose we are all too used to windows. I expect to select a file or folder, drag it with the right mouse button from the window to the desktop and select 'copy'. At the moment I can't see how to achieve this! I end up using EMELFM file manager to do simple copying.....

Also this probably has been mentioned before but why does a big empty white lined circle appear on the desktop when you right mouse click somtimes?

Any feedback greatly appreciated........
I am looking forward to spending Xmas with DSL and getting on with some computing....

Posted by blip on Dec. 21 2007,15:21

By the way I just also wanted to say that I appreciate so many people make suggestions about what they would like in a user interface...I realise not everyone is the same and likes the same things....and you've all put a lot of hard work into DSL so far...my comments are trying to be helpful not whinging!

Posted by roberts on Dec. 21 2007,16:07

Quote (blip @ Dec. 21 2007,04:57)

Many wireless cards do not support scanning. All of the ones that I have access do not. Entering a blank on the wireless GUI will connect to your hotspots. I use this frequently. So, instead of showing nothing or an error, becase the card does not support scanning, I have not put a gui on the output of the scan option. But then, of course, most people are buying the latest wireless cards that do support scannning. And it is usually these cards that have different chips, or even different device names. It is like trying to "catch the last train to Philadelphia". One of the biggest challenges I face with DSL is the support of the older, oldest, hardware and the newest hardware. Where other distros have the luxury of no longer supporting the old stuff. They only support the newer stuff and thus narrow down the issues they face.

Try leaving the sid and wep fields blank for your hotspots. Typically the latest hotspots near me require their sid be entered.
The browse you suggested is the result of the original gui tool kit did not support it. The current one does.

Quote

Also do you think it would be easier if someone has a USB pen in the PC that DSL mounts it automatically on the desktop as an Icon with something clear like 'USB 1gb Kingston' or something like that. I do find that (at the moment) I have to open a file window,look for 'mnt' then right click on a drive and try to mount it. The problem is I am left thinking 'do I mount sda1 or sda or sda2'...it takes a bit of brain power! I'm ok with this but maybe someone new to it might find this small thing much more of a challenge...

USB hotplug/hotswap in 2.4 kernel has known issues and has been written and discussed about not only here but in the KNOPPIX forums. Klaus Knopper has stated udev is needed to solve issues relating to hotswapping USB devices. As such, don't look for a miracle to happen here and is why I have avoided any desktop icon to appear or disappear upon insertion or removal. FYI, right click on any icon to have easy access to mount/umount options.

Quote

Personally I think the windows should open out with the icons in a structured view by default....they sometimes need a tidy a la oS 3.9 amiga when they open in default big icon view so I always change to structured view..

That is your perference, but I think that would discourage drag-n-drop. I see many users still trying to use 4.0 as a menu/application and icon/application launcher system. Those who do are not experiencing the new capabilities of 4.x

Quote

The biggest thing that stumps me is copying and pasting files. I suppose we are all too used to windows. I expect to select a file or folder, drag it with the right mouse button from the window to the desktop and select 'copy'. At the moment I can't see how to achieve this! I end up using EMELFM file manager to do simple copying.....

It is detailed in the "Getting Started" document Hold down the Ctrl key to copy. This remark enforces by remark above about not using 4.x they way it is intended to be used. Not using 4.x for its drag-n-drop features and trying to use it as an application launcher system I could see where one might consider 4.x a downgrade from 3.x. But once you "get it", you will realize the new capabilities that do not exist in 3.x

Quote

Also this probably has been mentioned before but why does a big empty white lined circle appear on the desktop when you right mouse click somtimes?

To indicate the selected object. The menu of choices varies based on the properties of the selected object this occurs only if you choose to have dfm to be the right click menu. dfm being the right click menu was the default in 4.0 and has since been changed to the window manager. This is stated in the change logs since 4.0 was released.

Quote

Any feedback greatly appreciated........
I am looking forward to spending Xmas with DSL and getting on with some computing....

A 48MB system is not going to provide feature for feature what is available in Microsoft Windows, or any other much larger systems.

But it appears to me, that you have not read Getting Started to give 4.x a fair chance.

Granted 4.0 has some rough edges. Any "dot oh" does. If you are interested in the 4.x series then I suggest to upgrade to the latest. I have implemented many suggestions from the community.

Posted by lucky13 on Dec. 21 2007,16:26

The USB issue is a function of hotplug and 2.4 kernels. I don't want to trade off the memory and extra CPU cycles that would be required to constantly run some mapping daemon or script in the background. I don't want my devices being mounted automatically, either -- especially on devices with multiple partitions that would all have to be manually unmounted before removal. One thing I can recommend if you have problems recommending which device and which point you want to mount is to run lsusb and/or fdisk -l. You should also know you wouldn't mount sda (device node); fdisk -l (set up an alias so you don't have to type sudo and the command) will show you your filesystems even on unmounted devices. You can also download usbview from MyDSL which shows you everything on your USB bus(es) including manufacturer name.

The dfm settings are a matter of personal taste. You can configure it to open as you desire, with whichever view you want. You can also set up more icons to open every directory in every conceivable way, use wrappers to do that via drag and drop, etc. Speaking of dragging and dropping, read that page that pops up in Dillo when you start for information about your issue with copying.

The circle shows dfm's control, whether it's inside a directory window or on the desktop. Don't be alarmed.

Posted by ^thehatsrule^ on Dec. 21 2007,19:02

The oval/circle-like appearance is compiled in. If you're still using the dfm context menu in the desktop and you don't like it, I can post some changes to remove it (or if you don't like it in the dfm windows either).

Posted by john.martzouco on Dec. 21 2007,23:50

Hi hats,

I'd be grateful if you posted the changes to remove the cicles.

Thanks,
John

Posted by ^thehatsrule^ on Dec. 22 2007,03:34

OK, here is a patch.

Code Sample

--- dfm/src/iconmanager.c.orig 2007-12-21 04:14:11.000000000 -0500
+++ dfm/src/iconmanager.c 2007-12-21 04:19:41.000000000 -0500
@@ -2206,7 +2206,8 @@
} else {
XDefineCursor(GetDisplay(),GetWindow(),GetWaitCursor());
if (evnt.xbutton.window==GetMoveWindow()) {
- ArcWindow(evnt.xbutton.window);
+ if (getenv("DFM_OVAL_WIN_DISABLE")==NULL)
+ ArcWindow(evnt.xbutton.window);
text=GenerateBackslashName(GetPath());
MenuLaunch(evnt.xbutton.time,text,True,evnt.xbutton.x_root,
evnt.xbutton.y_root);
@@ -2216,7 +2217,8 @@
direntry=GetDirentryFromWindow(evnt.xbutton.window);
if (direntry!=NULL) {
keyentry=direntry;
- ArcWindow(evnt.xbutton.window);
+ if (getenv("DFM_OVAL_DTOP_DISABLE")==NULL)
+ ArcWindow(evnt.xbutton.window);
if (direntry->mark==True) {
GetMarkedNames(&text);
} else {

This changes the behaviour to:
- looks for the specified environmental variable
- if it exists, skip the drawing

I did it this way so it would not disturb the defaults (was the quickest way I thought of).
If you don't want this behaviour at all and would rather have the code left out, you could take out arcwindow*

Posted by blip on Dec. 22 2007,08:47

Thanks for your patience in explaining that both of you.
I agree after reading what you've both said here that supporting older equipment is ultimately more important than these little extras.. and yes it's not worth extra scanning time on USB if that's what it would do....DSL runs so fast on old computers.....

Apologies about not noticing the CTRL key copy function....oops!

You are right Robert, I'd not read Getting Started all the way through.....sorry...it must be a bit of a wind up...I will read it through properly.

That was a basic thing I should have noticed.....it's just getting used to doing something slightly differently from years of using windows.
I've just seen 4.2 now....I've been using version 4.1 up until now.......I promise not to mention anything about icon aesthetics lol!

Posted by blip on Dec. 22 2007,09:15

I've just taken a look at 4.2.....it's looking really good. I like the way you can instantly click on themes which get installed automatically....

For anyone reading my post...to copy files to the desktop ( and to move )...it's as clear as day on how to do it in 'Getting Started' which opens up first thing! It mentions Linux is not quite like Windows there's just a different approach to this and cutting n pasting. So the lesson is for me to Read The F****** Manual before making any user improvement interface comments! Sorry!