Come On, Guys!
Forum: User Feedback
Topic: Come On, Guys!
started by: jlowell
Posted by jlowell on July 28 2004,16:49
Despite a very long recent discussion here about a booting/loading problem I was having with the then current version of DSL, downloading, burning and trying the new, 0.7.3 iso today I still get "boot failed" messages. Is this new CD based upon KNOPPIX 3.4 and utilize isolinux as I'd been led to believe it would be? I don't believe anything along those lines is mentioned in the changelog. I really must say, if my problem can't be taken seriously here, I'll just use Feather for my purposes and forget about DSL altogether. jlowell
Posted by cbagger01 on July 28 2004,17:03
I don't recall anyone here saying that minor DSL version number change 0.7.3 was going to be based on knoppix 3.4In fact, using common sense as my guide, I don't expect to see a DSL version that is based on knoppix 3.4 until version 0.8.0 or some other big jump in the version number happens.
Contrary to your insinuation, DSL is not in competition with Feather or any other compact Linux livecd. If another solution works better for you, my advice would be for you to use that solution.
On more than one occasion I have suggested that someone "use the right tool for the job" when it comes to software in addition to hammers / screwdrivers and if Feather is the right tool for the job I wouldn't hesitate to use it.
Otherwise, I would wait patiently for the next major version change of DSL, like every other person. I don't expect the authors to release it until they are satisfied that it is stable.
Posted by laughing_gas on July 28 2004,17:36
jlowell, I didn't know DSL was being made specifically for you? How special you must feel. And I see that Rob from Feather is also specifically making his distribution for your personal needs. Gee that's great! I wish I were you.
Posted by clivesay on July 28 2004,18:01
"I really must say, if my problem can't be taken seriously here, I'll just use Feather for my purposes and forget about DSL altogether."BIG MISTAKE!!
I'm with cbagger.
Robert stated that they are playing with a beta based on 3.4 but it is not for general consumption. You can tell by his posts that Robert does not fly by the seat of his pants. He puts things through their paces before he releases. I respect that even though it can be hard to wait!
I definitely wouldn't want anyone to look at Feather and DSL as competitors. I like both distros and their developers. I would say in the beginning they were very similar but over the last several months they have had different focuses. DSL has chosen to stay with 3.3 and focus on things like myDSL, and LiveCD usage while Rob decided to retool to Knoppix 3.4. Alot of the people in the Feather forum seem to like USB and HD installs. If you follow the Feather forum you can see that there have been some real challenges that go along with 3.4.
As a Linux learner, I haunt both forums on a daily basis. I would say that my final OS will be a hybrid of both distros. I challenge anyone to point to a better place to learn linux than these two distros. I haven't found it. There are great people in both places.
Please don't take any of this as personal. I am just making general comments.
In my opinion, if you don't follow both distros and push yourself to understand how each works and how you can combine features to suite your needs, you are really limiting yourself and the possibilities.
Take care
Chris
Posted by ke4nt1 on July 28 2004,18:12
| Quote |
| So maybe we have a clue as to what's going on, that the problem is related to DSL's use of the KNOPPIX 3.3 CD which includes syslinux, whereas Feather is a remaster of KNOPPIX 3.4 which employs isolinux? Interesting. If true, God knows if DSL development is going to be interested in moving to KNOPPIX 3.4 together with isolinux simply to accomodate one user. We don't know with certainty that 3.3 and syslinux is the problem, but how else to explain that I can boot Feather Linux and KNOPPIX and not DSL? jlowell |
The 0.8 version of DSL is still in beta testing.
Progress is moving forward steadily, but wisely.
( It will be worth the wait ! )
DSL is not in any rush to get out a product based on knoppix 3.4 until it is stable and clean.
This is an update to the 0.7.X series, that addresses many issues , as you've seen in the changelog.
This will be the solid base that the upgrade to 0.8 will be based upon.
It's unfortunate that your issue was not resolved in this release.
The focus on this release was to correct issues with the audio cd's playing under user dsl, ( yeah! )
the inconsistant problem with installing to hda1 ( my grub loader is happy again !! ),
continuing to make progress with the lua package, and other issues and new features listed.
The autoloading feature is very welcome indeed !
I'm very pleased with this release, and I expect much praise will be sent to John and roberts for their hard work.
73
ke4nt
Posted by jlowell on July 28 2004,19:11
cbagger01,| Quote |
| I don't recall anyone here saying that minor DSL version number change 0.7.3 was going to be based on knoppix 3.4 |
Well, since there were no version numbers mentioned, it was my distinct impression from
| Quote |
| roberts Group: Members Posts: 460 Joined: Oct. 2003 Posted: July 24 2004,22:11 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Knoppix 3.4 uses isolinux, before it was using syslinux. DSL 0.7.x and prior has syslinux. The DSL testing version has isolinux. These two are very different in how things are packed for booting. If Knoppix 3.4 works then I am sure the new testing version will work. It will be sooner than you think. Back to top -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
that a KNOPPIX 3.4 based DSL was just around the corner.
| Quote |
| Contrary to your insinuation, DSL is not in competition with Feather or any other compact Linux livecd. If another solution works better for you, my advice would be for you to use that solution. |
I didn't insinuate or imply, you inferred. I mentioned simply that I can boot with Feather and that I can't with DSL. In those circumstances, is it really a question of something being better for me or rather something being at all for me?
laughing_gas,
| Quote |
| jlowell, I didn't know DSL was being made specifically for you? How special you must feel. And I see that Rob from Feather is also specifically making his distribution for your personal needs. Gee that's great! I wish I were you. |
You've actually managed to take my remarks personally? Your sarcasm notwithstanding, it's certainly clear that you must feel that I'm special, very special indeed. I mean really, my opinions matter to you? Yours don't matter to me. Think about it.
clivesay,
| Quote |
| I definitely wouldn't want anyone to look at Feather and DSL as competitors. |
Hi Chris. As I mentioned to cbagger above, it's less a matter of seeing these two distros as competitors than it is being able to use one of them at all. I had the impression from roberts's remarks that release of a KNOPPIX 3.4 based DSL was immanent. Clearly, I've misunderstood something here. That notwithstanding, I'm going to need to use something and I'm afraid that's going to have to be Feather.
ke4nt1,
| Quote |
| It's unfortunate that your issue was not resolved in this release |
Yes, it is. I'm left with no choice but to elect Feather for my purposes. Sorry I couldn't give DSL an in-place test.
jlowell
Posted by clivesay on July 28 2004,19:23
jlowell -I bet it's probably coming soon but will have to wait a couple of releases I'm guessing.
My point was not to give up on DSL. Your message had that tone and I didn't want you to do that. You would miss alot in learning! That is the bad thing about typing messages, leaves for alot of room for individual interpretation.
Take care
Chris
Posted by ke4nt1 on July 28 2004,19:50
I thought this was very clear when I read it...| Quote | ||
Well, since there were no version numbers mentioned, it was my distinct impression from
that a KNOPPIX 3.4 based DSL was just around the corner. |
The 0.7.3 is part of the 0.7.x series that roberts mentions in his post...
and the 0.8 version IS due to be out very soon.. just not Today..
| Quote | ||
ke4nt1,
Yes, it is. I'm left with no choice but to elect Feather for my purposes. Sorry I couldn't give DSL an in-place test. |
Of course, even the DSL 0.8 series may not work for your hardware either....
If you decide to ever ditch the P2-440, or upgrade the video card,
perhaps DSL will then be suitable for your purposes.
I've enjoyed your posts, and your beta testing with your system.
I hope to continue to see you posting in the DSL forums,
and look forward to your posts in the Feather forums ...
You never told us how it booted with the promise ATA card removed...
Curious if the 0.7.3 version has any effect on your booting issue without it ..
ke4nt
Posted by John on July 29 2004,01:03
One thing I want to say is that this might be the top for core desktop applications for DSL. Jumping to the new kernel and isolinux will not be a free transition, it will cost in size. We are likely to lose an app or more, and we'll be forcing those who must boot from a floppy to now use two floppies which will significantly increase their bootup time.Obviously the choice to jump is not clean, there will be some who'd wish we hadn't. There will be winners and losers from the move.
Posted by clivesay on July 29 2004,02:32
John is right about the size. We have to remember that Feather is about 14mb, give or take, bigger than DSL. Rob uses alot of scripting for the Feather addons. John - I don't know how Rob does it but Feather still has a single floppy for booting.
Take care
Chris
Posted by John on July 29 2004,06:38
I know about the single floppy trick, it is done by removing quite a few modules which is interesting.
Posted by ripcrd6 on July 29 2004,14:51
| Quote |
John: One thing I want to say is that this might be the top for core desktop applications for DSL. Jumping to the new kernel and isolinux will not be a free transition, it will cost in size. We are likely to lose an app or more, and we'll be forcing those who must boot from a floppy to now use two floppies which will significantly increase their bootup time. Obviously the choice to jump is not clean, there will be some who'd wish we hadn't. There will be winners and losers from the move. |
I'm curious if this will affect the users that boot from floppy to usb. I would think that whatever base kernel is used on the floppy could still hand off to a different kernel in the CD, ISO image or USB location.
Posted by cbagger01 on July 29 2004,16:43
If we wanted to pull a Rocky Racoon "And now for something compeletly different", we could bundle the Smart Boot Manager floppy boot program into DSL and use it to create a floppy disk that can be used to boot DSL using the full-blown kernel that is used for the normal livecd bootup.It's a small and fast way to boot up a livecd with 1 floppy disk when you have a cdrom but do not have a cd-boot capable BIOS. And the floppy boot user gets to run the full DSL kernel instead of a stripped one.
The downsides are that non-standard (IDE/ATAPI) CDROM disk drives may not be detected by Smart Boot Manager (but many of them are already not detected by the current knoppix/feather/dsl boot floppy) and the biggest downside:
As far as I know, you can't use Smart Boot Manager to start up DSL if it is running from a poor man's or frugal install because it cannot boot an ISO image file. It can only boot operating systems that are installed in a bootable partition or are sitting inside a bootable livecd disk.
I am also unsure if you can use Smart Boot Manager to boot up a USB-based DSL install.
If you got some free time, check it out.
Posted by TyphoonMentat on July 29 2004,21:34
| Quote |
| I know about the single floppy trick, it is done by removing quite a few modules which is interesting. |
John - you're right there, all I did was remove the USB modules (made a separate boot.img) and the Firewire modules. I also compressed the kernel using UPX 1.90, and everything fitted in with room to spare.
If you think you might have to lose an app or two, I have a few suggestions which might work for you which I've implemented in Feather.
jlowell - I, the developer of Feather, also suggest that you keep an eye on DSL. It might turn out that DSL 0.8.0 - whenever it comes out - will suit your needs better than Feather will, and that's perfectly fine with me.
k34nt1 - you mentioned that you'd look forward to posts on the Feather forums, I'd be glad to see you there!