0.8.1.1 booting problems.
Forum: User Feedback
Topic: 0.8.1.1 booting problems.
started by: Rapidweather
Posted by Rapidweather on Sep. 30 2004,22:58
I'm using DSL 0.8.1.1, and have three machines that it will not boot on. ---
My two-processor 200 Mhz pentium pro machine (using it now) works fine.
It's a 686, and will run Redhat 9.
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Now for the machines that did run DSL 0.6.2, but now cannot run 0.8.1.1:
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First, a Dell 4600, with P-4 HT, and 1 GB RAM:
DSL stops at:
"Uncompressing Linux... OK, booting the kernel.
This machine ran 0.6.2 perfectly.
---
Second:
Toshiba laptop 4015CDS, with Pentium II, and 160 MB ram:
boots to this point, then quits:
" ACPI Bios Found, activating modules: ac battery button fan processor thermal"
Again this machine ran 0.6.2 just fine, also could run Luit Linux and Feather Linux, two similar distros.
---
Third:
An IBM 350-P90, with an upgrade 200 MMX processor, 128 MB ram.
The DSL 0.8.1.1 cd will not boot at all, nothing. Just a small blinking dash
on the screen in the upper left hand corner. This box ran DSL 0.6.2 just
fine, and currently has SuSE linux 6.3 installed on the HD.
---
So, I am reporting this, although I probably need to dig around in the forums
about 0.8.2, as I have seen some mention of it booting better in some cases.
Not sure if it would cure my problems.
---
All of this is probably due to the change in kernel, or perhaps the new boot
system, I suppose. It would seem, therefore, that DSL is beginning to progress
toward the newer machines, rather than continuing to support some of the older boxes, _but_ I note that the Dell 4600 is new, indeed, and has one of the
latest processors and intel motherboards. At 1 GB of ram, it is a natural for the
"toram" boot option that I use on 0.6.2.
--
I did remaster 0.6.2, as seen in my signature, and am currently doing a remaster on 0.8.1.1. With the booting problems, I am wondering if I should proceed to
give copies ot some of my friends here locally to test on Broadband, as they might run into booting problems not anticipated until now. I really did not have any misgivings about passing out CD's with my remaster of 0.6.2, as I had it booting on almost all my machines that had at least 128 MB ram, and a good chance, then, of running DSL properly.
--
Posted by roberts on Sep. 30 2004,23:29
This has been reported. Try 0.8.2 The prior 0.8.1.1 was trying a boot emulation mode, 0.8.2 does not.
Posted by Rapidweather on Oct. 01 2004,11:23
I'm glad to hear that. I'll get on it.---
Posted by Rapidweather on Oct. 02 2004,04:25
I have downloaded a copy of 0.8.2, and tried it on the three machines mentioned above.
I am sorry to say that it does not boot on any of these three machines.
The Dell P4 has this difference this time:
Two penquins appear, and that is all. This is probably due to the P4 HT processor, I have seen some reports of two penquins representing two processors on that processor because of HT.
--
I do have one machine that continues to work with both DSL 0.8.1.1 and
DSL 0.8.2, the dual-pentium pro machine, that has two 200 MMX processors, with 512 KB level two cache each, and 256 MB ram.
--
Apparently the problem may be elsewhere in the new DSL 8x series, I don't know. All of the machines run 0.6.2 very well, and I have run 0.5.3.1 also, the last DSL that had Wvdial, prior to the new extension
setup for DSL.
---
I am wondering how many others have serious booting problems, and are able to test on a variety of machines.
I have four completely different machines, and DSL 8x only runs on one of them. Two of them completely lock up, and have to be reset (the notebook) or unplugged (the Dell).
---
As mentioned in the prior post, I hesitate to loan out DSL 0.8.2 for testing to others, since it just might not boot for them.
---
We have to remember that a lot of Windows users would like to try
Linux due to the heavy load of security downloads, updates, etc. that
are constantly required by Microsoft. Most of these folks are not technically inclined, they just want the Internet and Email to work for them. I don't want to scare them off by presenting an OS to them that
very well might not boot.
---
Some time ago, there was an article on Slashdot recommending that one
take a "live linux cd" in the computer store, and ask the salesman if you can try it out to see if the various machines can boot linux. We would need a reliable live cd to do that, or we might be turning down perfectly good machines.
---
It's not all bad, though, I'm using DSL 0.8.2 to make this post!
Posted by cbagger01 on Oct. 02 2004,14:31
FYI,Some Dell computers that use the "Intel Extreme" integrated graphics do not work well with Linux.
This is true when running the Xvesa server in DSL or even the XFree86 server in Knoppix.
You may be able to get your XWindows to work nicely, but it seems that upon shutdown and reboot the Video card does not re-initialize and you are left with a black screen.
The only way to get rid of the black screen is to unplug the computer. Even a hard reboot and power off does not re-enable the video card.
This problem is not exclusive to just DSL. Dell has been making improvements to the BIOS for these computers that includes some comments about "improving video card performance for non-Windows operating systems", so it may be possible to solve the problem by downloading the latest BIOS from the Dell web site.
Posted by Rapidweather on Oct. 02 2004,15:01
Dell Demension 4600, P4 HT, 833 bus, 1GB ram:---
I'm using a 128MB agp graphics card, not the Intel on-the-motherboard graphics. I can run DSL 0.6.2 perfectly, with no problems. All I have to do is boot: vga=normal, and everything works, no lockups, etc.
---
Big problems with 0.8.2, however. I get only two penguins at startup, probably because of the P4 HT processor. In DSL 0.8.1.1, however, I get as far as this:
"Uncompressing linux... Ok, booting the kernel."
Then the Dell Demension 4600 locks up. It did start with only one penguin, however, not two as in 0.8.2.
---
The machine has a GB of ram, and really does an outstanding job of running DSL 0.6.2, and my remaster of that DSL version as well.
---
I did place a /KNOPPIX folder in the hard drive, and tried to boot that
with a floppy, but on a Dell, the partitions are /dev/hde2 for winXP, and
/dev/hde1 for the Dell Restore. There is no /dev/hda1 that KNOPPIX can locate, so you can' t boot DSL 0.6.2 from an installed /KNOPPIX foller like you can on machines that have normal /dev/hda1 motherboard setups. But, one can run from the CDROM, and the "toram" option works just fine, especially when you have 1 GB of ram!
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I'm going to try and make a usb pen drive install of 0.8.2 and see what the Dell does with that, but I would bet that although it can boot off a usb stick, DSL 0.8.2 (on a stick) won't work either. Won't run off the CD, so I doubt it will run off the stick.
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You know, the boot setup is completely changed in the 8x DSL's, from the older setup, and that may be the problem. I cannot run DSL 8x on three of my four machines, that could run DSL 6x just fine.
Posted by Aiku on Oct. 02 2004,15:41
How many threads are you going to start with this I count three so far.If you would read before posting you would know that 0.8.x is using isolinux versus the prior syslinux.
Have you even tried the download boot floppy so that you would be using syslinux
Since you always post about your remaster, why don't you remaster with the boot-0.8.img. Others have and you would know that if you would read the forums.
Maybe you should search before posting and please post only once. We have enough to read without triplicate posts.
Posted by Rapidweather on Oct. 02 2004,16:50
(This is going to be long, so settle back in your favorite chair with your favorite beverage handy)---
I could try that, using syslinux instead of isolinux. All I am trying to point out is that the stock 0.8.2, (not remastered in any way) has booting problems on three out of four of my machines that I use to test with.
This, then, is a wider problem, that might well affect a lot of folks trying out
DSL.
---
I was not aware that one could use syslinux, but one learns something new every day, especially on these very informative forums.
---
I would think then that a return to syslinux would be a choice that the DSL developers would have to address, regardless of whether or not I create a CD that uses it, and successfully boots on all of my test machines.
---
While I am waiting on that, and that's John's call, I decided to remaster
0.8.2 with Firefox, Opera and Wvdial. I'm using it now on my Dual Pentium Pro machine. It's just for fun, and an exercise, since I do need the DSL developers to see if they will address the booting problems.
Surely I am not the only one with booting problems, and I would ask any and all to test 0.8.2 on various machines, to see if they too have any problems not seen before with the DSL's that they have been using.
Where the boot process stops needs to be reported, as well as the hardware being used.
---
DSL is so useful, really, that I gave a copy to a friend that had been using tomsrtbt and BootE Linux floppies, and he's been using it when he works on machines. I just want to get on a soapbox as necessary to
bring my testing results to all interested in such things.
---
I had been used to seeing DSL work on almost all machines, that had a
decent amount of RAM. I was more than a little taken aback when I ran into the "booting problems".
---
Giving something back:
I realize that when someone comes to this forum asking for assistance and help with DSL, that we all take some time to give an answer, as best we can. Those of us that have played with DSL for a while have that obligation. I do spend a little time looking at the posts, when I have it to spare, and I try and respond when no one else has yet been able to help the newbies, I know they appreciate it. Problems need to be put on the table for all to see and think about, and the dialog that results should help the overall DSL community.
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The big picture here is the problems Microsoft has with XP. Lots of
users are in need of an alternative, and I would like to think that would
be DSL. Although I like to talk about it, I have not released my remaster for download. It may very well be that the remastering bunch here at DSL caused the Developers to come up with the DSL extensions idea,
still able to offer a small download, but providing a way to expand without the "complicated remastering process".
---
Posted by cbagger01 on Oct. 02 2004,17:02
Rapidweather,The main problem that both Knoppix and DSL have with SYSLINUX is that is limits the size of the kernel + modules that can be included into the livecd. And the size of the newer DSL/Knoppix kernels are now exceeding this limit.
SYSLINUX works with a fake floppy-disk style booting so it is limited to the size of the floppy disk media.
ISOLINUX, while incompatible with some computers, does not have this limitation.
So while it is possible to get into DSL with a SYSLINUX/floppy boot process, you are then booting with a kernel that does not offer the full support that the default knoppix/dsl ISOLINUX kernel has.
So the best answer is to do whatever works best for you, but the DSL team needed to resolve this issue in the best way that they could.
Any providing the flexibility of a full ISOLINUX CD bootup + a SYSLINUX based floppy boot disk seems like a good compromise to me.
Regards,
-CB
Posted by ke4nt1 on Oct. 02 2004,22:00
And the suggestion of trying the USBkey may not be so far fetched, as the USB-floppy disk image and the frugal_usb script
( the one that installs a bootable copy of DSL onto a USBstick )
both use the syslinux loader in the bootusb-0.8.img ..
So give it a try, and feedback to us on the booting of your boxes with that ..
73
ke4nt
Posted by Rapidweather on Oct. 03 2004,03:06
Looking at the problem of replacing the miniroot.gz and vmlinuz as found in DSL 0.6.2 (for instance), with the linux24 and minirt24.gz as found in DSL 0.8.2:I note that the boot.img in 0.6.2 is 1.41 MB, which is floppy sized. So,
making a boot.img with the linux24 (971.49 KB) and the minirt24.gz (771.84 KB) would push the boot.img over a "floppy size".
Now all that would fit on a CD, but would that be valid under the
syslinux setup? There is that limit on it, and that is why, as pointed out, DSL had to go to the isolinux boot setup.
---
I did try to boot DSL 0.8.2 with a 0.6.2 boot floppy, and got module
errors, etc. with no boot. Then I looked at the sizes of the files, and decided that the 0.8.2 linux24 and minirt24.gz wouldn't fit in a custom
boot.img, unless it was on a CD, then it wouldn't work under syslinux.
---
Now, about my booting problems using 0.8.2 on my Dell Demension 4600: This is a fairly modern machine, very expen$ive ($2400.00) and
typical of what Dell has to offer. If DSL won't run on those, then I am of the opinion that something has to be done. Dell is mail order. No testing of the machine with a "live cd" beforehand, as recommended a while back on Slashdot. Those folks that have XP on Dells will soon want
something like DSL, for the security and upgrade hassles and expenses for XP will tire them out, for sure.
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The good part is that DSL has a bunch of mirrors with older versions
available, that will run on (practically) anything that has a decent amount of memory.
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I heard that the hardware requirements of the next big Windows distro, (longhorn) will perhaps require up to 3 GB of RAM. To this end, Dell is shipping machines now that can be upgraded to that level. Even though those boxes are going out with Windows XP, they know that soon, (2006) upgrades to the next version of Windows will be tried by the owners of those machines. So, they are ready. The question is: " can DSL run on current Dell offerings?"
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Now, I have to get working on putting 0.8.2 on that USB stick... I'll have to boot it with the usb boot floppy, but that's because I have a "non-usb-bootable" motherboard on my Dual Pentium Pro box. On the Dell, I looked in Setup, and not sure if it can boot directly off a usb stick either, so I'll use the floppy there also.
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Posted by cbagger01 on Oct. 03 2004,20:54
Rapidweather,There is no need to hack a DSL 0.8.2 bootfloppy together. One already exists. Get the floppy image here:
< http://ibiblio.org/pub....8.0.img >
Or if you want one that has USB support built in (good for booting from a floppy to a USB drive. Also, is used as the base for assembling a bootable USB device):
< http://ibiblio.org/pub....0.8.img >
Both are less than 1.44MB and both can be written to a floppy using rawrite32 in windows or dd in linux.
Posted by Rapidweather on Oct. 03 2004,21:37
Yes, I did get the usb boot.img and used dd to put it on a floppy.I did the usb install onto a dell 64 mb stick, and cannot get it boot.
I get dropped to a (very limited) shell, as /KNOPPIX is not found.
Apparently the script is looking for sda1, and my Dell probably has the
usb ports on something else. I have one of those LCD monitors that has
two usb sockets on the left hand side of the screen. Tried it there.
I note that the usb install script left me hanging with the 100% full, or no
more room message. Perhaps I need to use a 128 MB stick?
When I mount the stick (64 MB) and look at the contents with emelfm I get this:
---
boot.msg 110 bytes
f2 1592 bytes
f3 1675 bytes
german.kbd 256 bytes
ldlinux.sys 7836 bytes
linux24 971.49 KB
logo16 7367 bytes
minirt24.gz 242.28 KB
syslinux.cfg 2045 bytes
---
I notice that the minirt24.gz is smaller in size than the original
on the CDROM.
---
On my remaster, minirt24.gz is 771.84 KB, which may be a little different
from the DSL 0.8.2 original, which is 771.79 KB, reflecting the changes I made to linuxrc.
So, the minirt24.gz above on my usb stick is _way_ short, and probably the cause of my booting problems.
---
Is this my problem as to why I can't boot, OR is it
that I am trying this USB installation on the same machines that could
not boot DSL 0.8.2 from a CD, and that this usb install is the same
distro?
As I have noted elsewhere in the forums, I have a Toshiba 4015CDS laptop (PII, 160 MB ram)and a Dell Dimension 4600 (P4 HT, 1 GB ram) that could not boot DSL 0.8.2 from a CD. (Both boxes could boot 0.6.2 ok)
I am trying the USB install as it uses syslinux (boot floppy) instead of isolinux as on the CD to see what results I could get.
I really need a bunch of different machines to try all this on. I only have four.
---
Posted by cbagger01 on Oct. 03 2004,21:44
OK,Here is some additional information that might help.
1) Some Dell computers do not properly boot from USB unless you use one of the REAR USB ports. If your USB device does not light up before the Initial Dell Logo BIOS screen disappears then you have a problem. You should probably disable "FAST BOOT" in your BIOS. Also, sometimes it works better if you boot from a CTL-ALT-DEL keystroke. Press "F12" and choose Boot from USB device.
See this thread for more details on my experiences:
< http://damnsmalllinux.org/cgi-bin....l;st=20 >
Posted by Rapidweather on Oct. 03 2004,21:58
Our posts may have crossed in the mail.my minirt24.gz is not the right size on my usb pen drive install.
Is that what is wrong ?(part of it, anyway.)
Also, does the usb pen drive install script in 0.8.2 include the dos
setup discussed in your thread? I'm not sure if it does. Looking forward
to the next release of DSL 0.8.2.1? to see if there is such a new script.
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