DSL and audio client
Forum: User Feedback
Topic: DSL and audio client
started by: JohnS
Posted by JohnS on Dec. 16 2004,00:04
I just found out about DSL a couple days ago and have been furiously getting to know it (to my wife's dismay !). This all started because I am an audiophile trying to get the best possible sound from digital source. A bunch of us on other internet sites have been building our own DACs and have come to the conclusion that anything using S/PDIF as an input is compromised, we can get significantly better sound with a properly implemented USB DAC (unfortunately there are VERY few properly implemented USB DACs commercially available, so we make our own) Of course this means you need a compuetr to drive the USB DAC. We are looking at fanless no moving part simple machines that can access libraries of sound files over a network from big (possibly noisy) servers in another room.
The obvious choice is a mini-itx machine. I was over at solar-pc because they make such machines and ran across a version with DSL installed on a CF card. I had never heard of DSL before (well the transport mechanism, not the OS). But their picture of the DSL CD had the URL on it so I wound up over here.
DSL looked like exactly what I was looking for so I decided to try it out, burned a CD, booted from it and nothing, blank screen when X started. OK perusing here I find nVidia boards don't like xvesa. Tried fb mode, still blank screen. I tried every paramter I could find to boot:, still no luck. I finally got it down to my mouse! I was using a Wacom graphics tablet which it did NOT like. I put in a regular USB mouse and booted in fb1024x768 and I had a desktop!!
But no sound or network. I eventually found out I needed to run modprobe b44 to get the network to run. Things were much better now. I could access myDSL packaeges etc, but still no man pages, I get a no authorization message from lynx whenever I try and do a man. A little anoying, but with firefox running I could usually find the info I was after on the net.
Now to sound. I needed to get ALSA running (ALSA supprts the USB interfaces we are using for our DACs). So I tried the alsadeb.dsl package. After I got a couple other packages it needed I did the alsa install and got a message saying I already had a sound driver installed, which would cause a problem. So I tried rmmod on the existing driver, it didn't work becaue it was busy. (I still don't know why it was busy).
I tried loading the asla driver with modprobe, which worked, but I still get no sound from xmms, BUT I can cat a file to the /dev/ device and get sound out of the speakers, so it looks like the driver is working. It appears I need a special mixer: envy24control for my delta-44, I can find this in several places but I'm not quite sure how to get this installed on my DSL system.
So after all that LONG preamble I have a few real questions:
How do I load the ALSA drivers at boot time when I'm running off a live CD with no persistant store? The disks on the machine are ntfs which I can't write to from DSL. Is there somme command I can give at boot time that will let me grab the alsa drivers at boot time before the builtin drivers gets loaded? Or a way to prevent them from getting loaded at boot time? (the problem is that I have an onboard sound chip, but I want to use the delta-44 with alsa drivers instead)
I have an old smart card and USB reader I could use for save and restore across live CD sessions (its not big enough to put the whole DSL on), but can I tell DSL to use that for restore? And if I can, how do I set it up so alsa is on the smartcard to be used at boot time? Trying to figure out what files to put in filelist is going to be a nightmare with something as big and pervasive as alsa.
After I get all this running then I have to figure out how to make samba work so I can access the sound files from another machine.
Right now all I'm trying to do is get familaiar enough with DSL and running alsa in it so that I can determine if its going to work well as the OS for the itx audio client. I also need to find a good player to use, specifically something that can work well with large libraries of files off on servers. My intention is to have a 7" or so touch screen LCD monitor as the user interface for this. It would be really nice if I can find something that would show thumbnails of the CD covers, a number of the people involved in this project really want that.
Suming up, final product is itx system running off CF card, but for now I want to experiment using live CD before I start buying new hardware. BTW that 3677 case in your itx store is way cool, thats probably what I'll be using for this project.
I guess thats enough for one post.
John S.
Posted by cbagger01 on Dec. 16 2004,01:38
If you go to the Damnsmalllinux.org web site, you can view the contents of the myDSL respository by clicking on the "mydsl repository is online" link.In addition to seeing the myDSL extensions that are also listed inside the myDSL click-and-run GUI, you can read more information about each extension by clicking on the "info" link next to each filename.
Anyways, the alsadebs.dsl extension has an info file that describes how you can properly load the extension without running into driver conflicts. Check it out:
< http://www.ibiblio.org/pub....bs.info >
Also, if you want to build a custom dsl iso that includes the alsadebs.dsl extension, you can build one here:
< http://www.nolifeline.com/mydslmkr.html >
Posted by ke4nt1 on Dec. 16 2004,03:36
Using the alsadebs.dsl package as instructed by cbagger01 in the .info fileworks well with the delta 66 and 1010 series of soundcards.
I use them both daily in our facility, and can attest to their success.
I also use NVidia video cards with both 32 and 64MB versions of Gforce2
No issues with xvesa, and the performance is much better using xvesa.
Try booting with the vga=normal string in your boot commands.
All of your settings can be placed in your backup for your
netcard config, and your other hardware and shares to bootup nicely
and automatic.
The samba.dsl file is the one you want for connectivity to your windows shares.
It can also autorun after bootup , and mount shares automatically as well...
So, I'd burn a copy of DSL from the .iso using a multisession burn mode,
leaving the disc open ..
Than burn a second session on the same CD, with these .dsl files in the
root of the second session.
samba.dsl
alsadebs.dsl
gnu-utils.dsl
dsl-dpkg.dsl
Your system will have all your apps loaded and ready to run at startup.
Placing the configs in your bootlocal.sh will autoload the nic stuff.
ex. --> modprobe b44
73
ke4nt
Posted by JohnS on Dec. 16 2004,10:08
Thanks for the replies. I did get the alsadeb to load correctly. I didn't realize you coul duse the boot: dsl alsa command with the live CD, I was under the impression that it needed the alsa libs to be already loaded at boot time, at least thats what I got from the warning message when loading the dsl. Part of the problem is that when you are in the myDSL click list, the the info link for alsadeb comes back with a file not found. From the home page myDSL online link its there, but from the desktop click on myDSL its not.
Anyway it loads, but only works with OSS mode from xmms. I always get a busy device message when I try and use the also plugin for xmms. I tried the default and all kinds of specific devices such as plughw:0,0 etc. The asound files say its detected the hardware as card0 device 0, sub 0 so plughw:0,0 should work but it doesn't. Anyway at least I got sound coming out using OSS mode.
On the video front, nothingI do with xvesa works, just a blank screen, I tried all the vga= modes and none work. fb1024x768 DOES work so I'm sticking with that for now.
This week end I might try making my own custom CD with alsa, xmms and the config files setup to load it all at boot. That will be fun to try and figure out how to do that.
On the original front, I've been looking around and it seems that slimserver might be a good way to do the remote audio file management. And you could use a squeezebox in those rooms that you don't really need the ultimate infidelity. The mini-itx DSL system becomes sort of a super squeezebox.
Am I having fun yet? You BET!
John S.
Posted by JohnS on Dec. 20 2004,20:54
I got things working much better now. The multisession boot disk works great on my big computer, I can put as many DSL apps in there as I want and they load at boot time. Unfortunately it does NOT work on the laptop, it will not boot from the multisesion, just the singlesession CD. On the sound front with alsadebs in there at boot time everything work great. The ALSA driver on the delta-44 really sounds GOOD, for some reason it sounds better than it does in XP.
The one problem I have is getting the wireless LAN to work on the laptop. It says it has a prism pci builtin, at bootup the orinoco suite is installed but does not work (of course not, I don't have the SSID and WEP key at that point). I tried ebery configuration utility I could find and got it to work ONCE, now I can't get it to work again. If I rmmod the orinoco drivers I can get the prism2_pci drivers to load (which are wlan drivers) and use the prism2 script which uses wlan tools, but still no connection. I'm kind of stumped on that for now. The Wlan stuff thinks its all working, just no connection. Wired works fine straight off the CD.
For the sound app I'm running slimsever and softsqueeze, I don't even need samba, the slimserver does the reading of the audio files and sends it to softueeze over the LAN quite nicely. Slimserver has a nice web interface which lets you control the player remotely, dillo or firefox work well for this, they even have a skin for the web interface optimized for small touchscreen displays like I was thinking of using for this. Softqueez is written in java so I did need to load the java dsl, thats BIG for DSL packages!
At this point I'm ready to put together the real hardware and find out outwhat I need to do for IT!
BTW you guys now have me right clicking on the windows desktop!
John S.
Posted by JohnS on Dec. 21 2004,00:07
I finally got wirelessw to work. I had to issue the iwconfig commands by hand and do a pump, that worked!It seems like the iwconfig item in the main menu should be doing this but it pops up a window which immediately goes away. I don't know the name of this script and where it is located,otherwise I could look into it and find out what is going on. But for now its working manually.
(entered into firefox over wireless connection)
John S.
Posted by ke4nt1 on Dec. 21 2004,00:31
Wow !Your having a blast here with DSL
I use the edna.dsl as a streaming MP3 server running on a DSL
garbage box ( celeron 333 w/128MB's ) on my home network.
Plus, I can listen to my server at work, share with relatives,
and have access to my library anywhere there is an IP ...
( It will be streaming lots of christmas cheer this weekend. )
Edna is awesome..
I have been working on an icecast.dsl for DSL ,
but the setup for each system needs to be unique..
Maybe I'll need to include some setup docs for it..
Glad to hear your also having good success with the Delta Cards.
I would like to see some better mixers available for the 1010.
------------------------------------------------------------
Curious, I am..
From a root prompt, what does the command
" Xvesa -listmodes "
show you for usable vesa modes on your NVidia ?
I have 5 different NVidia cards in use with DSL,
and all of them like the XVesa over the framebuffer.
( I know the radeon cards seem to want XFBdev )
I run most of mine at 1280x1024x16
--------------------------------------------------------------
Have you been using the prism2 utility in the DSL setup GUI ?
My prism2 works great from there, using the setup tool.
( make sure you capitalize your hex , and place colons
between 2 character groups in your wep key. )
Once it is working , it should create a myprism.sh file..
Place the filename/path in your filetool.lst ,
and put a command to start the file in your /opt/bootlocal.sh
Then do a backup ...
Should come up automatically every boot thereafter ..
Enjoyed your posts..
73
ke4nt
Posted by JohnS on Dec. 21 2004,02:12
I tried the Xvesa comand and this is what I got:root@ttyp0[dsl]# Xvesa -listmodes
Interrupt pointer doesn't point at ROM
Interrupt pointer doesn't point at ROM
0x0006: 640x200x1 (monochrome) Planar (1 planes)
0x000D: 320x200x4 Planar (4 planes) (no linear framebuffer)
0x000E: 640x200x4 Planar (4 planes) (no linear framebuffer)
0x0010: 640x350x4 Planar (4 planes) (no linear framebuffer)
0x0011: 640x480x1 (monochrome) Planar (1 planes)
0x0012: 640x480x4 Planar (4 planes) (no linear framebuffer)
0x0013: 320x200x8 PseudoColor
It doesn't look too promising.
The problem with the prism2 setup thingy is that the system installs the orinoco drivers at boot time, while they are installed you cannot install the WLAN drivers (which is what the prism2 setup does) I did get it to work but I first had to rmmod the orinoco drivers. With the proper iwconfig commands the orinoco drivers work great, we just need a simple utility to set the SSID and WEP (Which I suspect is what the iwconfig on the menu is for), oops getting late I have to get to the astronomy club board meeting. DSL is just taking up too much time these days.
John S.
Posted by ke4nt1 on Dec. 21 2004,07:20
OOOhhh... Did he say Astronomy ? I see another thread in the near future...
Maybe a HamRadio/Astronomy thread..
Do you know...
Patricia Reiff - (Pat)
Professor in the Department of Physics and Astronomy,
and Director of the Rice Space Institute at Rice University
Very active in Astronomy and Ham Radio - Her callsign is KD5IZK
Loyd Overcash
Avid Astrophotographer and works closely with/to McDonald Observatory
in West Texas.. His astrophotography is well published thruout the internet
and universities / astronomy clubs here in Texas. His callsign is KM5OE
Great folks, wonderful to talk to and play radios with..
Sent my kids some pictures .. ( so cool! )
and answer folks questions during their commute to/from home...
Keeps us up on current events ( ISS passes, Eclipses, Iridium Flashes, etc.. )
I see their "toys", and our 4 lil' dinky scopes will never compare..
( I did capture some neat stuff with our 6" reflector and our dig camera! )
See, whadda I tell ya' !!
Oh, yeah.. If you find yourself using the rmmod orincoco command
frequently, you could place the "rmmod orinoco" line in your /opt/bootlocal.sh
before the myprism.sh line, to unload that driver by default.
I don't have one to play with , but I bet there is an easy way to setup
the orinoco to work correctly, since it only needs your info at boottime..
73
ke4nt
Posted by JohnS on Dec. 21 2004,20:03
Aha, I USED to be ham, many years ago, from about 12 to 17 years old, then computers hit (the I got started with a homebuilt 8080 system when that was about the only microprocessor you could buy) and I let my license lapse. I've been running into a lot of astronomy/ham people in the last few years. I was into QRP at the time, I built a very small 1.5 watt rig I would use when back packing in the Siera Nevada. I would fine a nice tall tree and use a slinky coupler and pretty much be able to communicate with the world with 1.5 watts. I also used to have fun doing Am radio DXing with the slinky coupler, I could eaily get stations from south america. I live in the SF bay area, so I don't know too many people in Texas, but Texas WAS instrumental in getting me into astronomy. My wife's familly lives in rural Texas to the east of Austin (their address is Elgin, but they really are not near anything!) After we got engaged I went to see them (It was February) and the stars there really blew me away, it got me hooked, now I have 6 telescopes, a bunch of expensive eyepieces and an astronomical CCD camera. I like building scopes too, right now I'm building a computer controlled mount to do the imaging with, I'm pretty sure that I'll wind up using DSL in it (to get back to the REAL topic!)
Well thats enough time chatting, back to fooling around with DSL and softsqueeze!
John S.
Posted by CappyCaffeine on Dec. 21 2004,20:57
JohnS,Glad to hear you have really dug deep into DSLl for your needs, but have scratched the surface because the next step for you is creating your own scripts.
If you look at most of the configuration files on a typical linux system, they are in a script language. Linux has multiple types of scritpting languages (SH, BASH, PERL) and learning how to use scripts to automate many processes will save time and headache.
Infact, I have my bootlocal.sh script calling other scripts to load various modules, activating wireless connections, etc.
simple script file to set up your wireless connection:
#! /bin/bash
modprobe (whatever module you need, or perhaps ndiswrapper)
iwconfig eth0 (or wlan0 depending on the card) key {26 hexadecimal key for 128bit encryption} SSID {your network name here}
ifconfig eth0 (or wlan0) up
pump -i eth0 (or wlan0)
#-----------eof----------------------------
This script with some modifications should get your wireless network up and running.
There are ways to automate this when creating a personalized DSL CD that is covered on other areas of the forum.
Just my 2 cents, and welcome to DSL!
Cappy
Posted by JohnS on Dec. 22 2004,03:18
Hello Cappy, actually I've been using Unix (mostly on suns) for about 20 years but this is my first foray into linux land. On the suns at work I never had to deal with PC wireless connections etc.
The two major stumbling blocks here have ben the lack of persistant store (both machines I'm running DSL on have XP and NTFS file systems so I can't write to disk without repartitioning the disk, and I don't want to do that just yet. The laptop has a floppy but you have to swap out the CD to do that which makes it difficult to boot off the CD!
The other problem has been the lack of man pages, I'm used to just doing a man on something I'm not familiar with, but on DSL that goes off to a web page, which makes things a little difficult when you are trying to debug the network connection. Even when I do have the connection working I get a "don't have permision" message when I try and do a man. Its made things a little difficult to track things down.
As to shells I'm motly used to csh and tcsh, bash is new to me but seems to be quite similar. For scripts I'm an awk expert and like to use python. I don't really like perl much though. Many years ago I actually wrote a word processor in awk, primarily just for the name: awk-word.
The linux boot procedures, how drivers are loaded, what config files control what and where they are located is quite a bit different than what I am used to, I'm having to unlearn a lot!
All the detailed technical articles on the net assume the audience already knows all the details about how linux boots and installs drivers etc, and the beginners stuff doesn't come close to covering what I'd like to know, its that middle ground that is always the toughest to find. I'm picking up bits and pieces here and there but it would be nice to find one place that had the basic technical aspects of linux. I'm sure its somewhere, I just haven't found it yet.
We just did a massive clean up of the house and I found the USB card reader and smart cards, so now I can actually try doing a backup and restore and writting some scripts.
I haven't gotten to the point of remastering my own custom live CD yet, thats going to take a little digging.
I am having a lot of fun working through the problems I'm havin with DSL. Hopefully sometime I'll have figured out enough that I can start helping others out.
John S.
Posted by JohnS on Jan. 01 2005,09:09
I have softsqueeze working great under DSL now. Its a very tight fit since the java jre takes up 80MB uncompressed. I partially got around this by putting the uncompressed jre onto a pendrive with an ext2 partition, thus it didn't have to be loaded on the ramdrive. One of the nice things about using slimserver is that you can control the player through a web interface to the server, with everything else running, firefox took too much memory I had to use dillo which doesn't quite display everything correctly but uses a lot less memory.
It turns out that the java sound system works great with the ALSA system, everything worked straight out of the box including the "docked" mixer. With the non-alsa drivers it took some tweaking to get stuff to work and then I needed a java mixer, I'm sticking with ALSA!
I then tried the slimserver itself under DSL, that was a pain in the neck. The app comes only as an RPM not a tar or deb file. I tried to use alien to convert it but that took a lot of work with apt-get, alien grabs a LOT of packages!!! I finally got alien to extract the rpm and then put things in the right place. Once that is done it works fine under DSL. One of these days I'll make a mydsl for both slimserver and softsqueeze which should simplify the process.
Now that I have proved it can all work under DSL, I guess I have no choice now but to start building the real hardware fore this to run on (PC with LOTS of disk for server running DSL and silent mini-ITX running DSL on CF card for client).
Thanks to everybody that helped along the way.
John S.