Teenagers

Forum: User Feedback
Topic: Teenagers
started by: TimDogg

Posted by TimDogg on Dec. 16 2004,12:31

Hi, I am brand new to this forum and actually pretty new to linux all together. I work at a school as librarian/information officer and I frequently get asked about computers by the kids. There is a group of lads very keen on trying Linux, I suggested Knoppix and one of them tried it, but DSL of course is even more spectacular, so I was wondering if any of you have experience with first time linux users that are pretty low on general computerknowledge?

Posted by clivesay on Dec. 16 2004,13:42

I have a NFP that is refurbishing old PC's and giving them to needy kids. I'm using a custom remaster of Knoppix that is based off of DSL and Feather. I am jsut started to distribute and the feedback has been very good so far. It looks like I will be distributing close to a dozen PC's next week. If you want to PM me, we can discuss in detail if you like.

Chris

Posted by Tux5 on Dec. 16 2004,22:13

My only hesitation on giving DSL to someone as a first exposure to Linux is the Fluxbox desktop is rather different to the Windows desktop. If you think they could cope with not clicking in the bottom left hand corner to start programs then I would highly recommend DSL as one of the very best distributions to learn Linux from. If you don't think they could cope with that then Slax (www.slax.org) would be my suggestion as the next best thing to DSL. At almost 200mb it is nearly 4 times the download size of DSL but it is way smaller than the 700mb Knoppix download.

Posted by ke4nt1 on Dec. 16 2004,22:37

I have had my teenage sons "introduce" many of their friends
to DSL thru school activities and ham radio ..

I've only heard praise and positive comments about it.
No one has made mention about the missing "start" button.

The only issue I've heard about was it missing the
accelerated graphics for gaming..
But for music, surfing, burning CD's, and schoolwork, it does great.

73
ke4nt

Posted by henk1955 on Dec. 16 2004,22:42

there is an < icewm > extenstion. It is a windowmanager like windows taskbar, startbutton, clock

Posted by RoGuE_StreaK on Dec. 17 2004,00:51

Didn't like icewm, mainly because the menu selection didn't follow the mouse - had to manually click on everything to open each tree of the menu. Unless it wasn't set up properly? But I've tried several downloads of it in the past 6months or so, each with the same result...

I really love fluxbox, but I think the addition of a "start" button to the toolbar would be a great asset, as when you have apps maximised, especially in fluxbox0.9.10 where you no longer have tabs, you don't have any desktop to right-click to get the menu. I have the toolbar and slit on autohide and top layer, so they pop up over the top of anything you have maximised, so a place to click on either of them to bring up the menu would make everything much nicer, and make the "transition" from windoze a little easier...

I guess it (ease of use) depends on whether the user is just going to use apps, or start looking at the file system. But if they're fairly low on computer knowledge anyway, then they will just want to use the apps, in which case half of the people wouldn't even know that they weren't using some new form of windoze.

Posted by clivesay on Dec. 17 2004,02:03

What I plan to do in a future remaster is to utilize wmdrawer in the slit with autohide. Now you have a "start" button but it only shows when you want it. Even put it in the left corner.

Chris

Posted by SaidinUnleashed on Dec. 17 2004,02:05

I like Flux/Black/Bluebox exactly the way they are.

After you get used to the idea, it's annoying not having everything just a right-click away.

Posted by mikshaw on Dec. 17 2004,02:22

Quote

I think the addition of a "start" button to the toolbar would be a great asset, as when you have apps maximised, especially in fluxbox0.9.10 where you no longer have tabs, you don't have any desktop to right-click to get the menu.

I hate the start button...waste of space in my opinion.
If you have no place on the root window to click, try mapping a key combo to RootMenu, for example "Mod1 M :RootMenu". Then you just need to hit Alt+M to bring it up.
Another option is to shade your window for a second while accessing the menu.
In version 0.9.11 there is also the option to customize the window menu (the menu you get when you right-click on a titlebar), where you can add whatever apps you want and have a special menu available from a maximized window.
Whatever the method, anything is better than adding a start button.

Tabs in 0.9.10 are embedded into the titlebar, which I thought was a very smart move...I always thought they were ugly and bulky. They don't come into play unless you have grouped windows.

Posted by Nate on Dec. 22 2004,03:42

Quote (RoGuE_StreaK @ Dec. 16 2004,19:51)

I've used IceWM for many a year and the config option for having the menu highlight follow the mouse is:

# Menus track mouse even with no mouse buttons held
MenuMouseTracking=1 # 0 / 1

This is from my ~/.icewm/preferences file, BTW.

I do like that IceWM uses many of the hot-keys that Windows uses (since I work in a Windows shop) it makes it easy for me to use the keyboard to navigate at work and at home with keyboard. For example, Ctl-Esc brings up the programs menu and Alt-Tab switches between running apps.

I'm kind of late to the live CDs and found DSL about six weeks ago and have 0.8.4 and now 0.9.1 is out already. Guess I'll have to do download tonight! I see there is an IceWM extension available so I may have to give it a try.

Keep up the good work.

- Nate >>

Posted by RoGuE_StreaK on Dec. 22 2004,03:54

Not sure about Ctl-Esc, but Alt-Tab works exactly the same in fluxbox.
In fluxbox.9.11, can you link the FULL menu off the window menu? ie. have your usual window menus, plus say a "dsl menu", which pops out the usual full menu?
Basically I'm after somewhere to click to bring up the menu when apps are fully maximised, without having to shade anything. If I could just right click on the window title bar and get the menu off that, that would be ideal.

Posted by RoGuE_StreaK on Dec. 22 2004,11:47

Ah, fluxbox.9.11 has Alt-F11 bound to the menu... nice!

Posted by mikshaw on Dec. 22 2004,12:31

Quote

In fluxbox.9.11, can you link the FULL menu off the window menu? ie. have your usual window menus, plus say a "dsl menu", which pops out the usual full menu?

There are some things which don't work from the window menu....no idea why. Regular applications should work fine, but there were a couple of special commands that wouldn't work properly. The 'restart' command, for example, just closes Fluxbox unless it's issued from the root menu or command dialog.

Posted by jefro on Jan. 06 2005,23:41

I think either Knoppix or DSL are great choices. I'd consider taking the hard drives out and just run either. That way you'd never have to repair their errors.

I think you will find that most kids can understand linux to some extent. Each will adapt as well as they do to Windows or Mac's.

Posted by Delboy on Jan. 07 2005,17:23

Back to the schoolkids issue. My 10 year old and two 6 year olds have been accessing DSL on my dualbooting PC. box for nearly a year. The whole dual boot concept using Lilo and using the Fluxbox menu with the mouse is simple enough to them. After initially going straight to the games my older boy has found Sketch, Cruiser and particularly Imagemagic a lot of fun and a bit more productive. They like the directness and relative simplicity of DSL as opposed to Win98. If there ever are Formula 1. racing and Tony Hawkes skateboarding game .dsls then they will be completely sold!

Posted by AwPhuch on Jan. 07 2005,17:51

Quote (Delboy @ Jan. 07 2005,12:23)

perhaps a "port" of < http://transgaming.com > WINE addon called "Codega" which allows over 300 of the latest M$ games to be played is in order...only prob is you gotta buy it! (and have WINE, and a good x, and nvidia videocard stuff)

Quote

Cedega support hundreds of the top Windows games on Linux, including such blockbuster hits as Max Payne 2, GTA Vice City, Battlefield 1942, Battlefield: Vietnam, WarCraft III, Diablo II, Half-Life, just to name a few; MMPORG games such as City of Heroes, Star Wars Galaxies, EverQuest and many many more are also supported

Brian
AwPhuch

Posted by Mechcozmo on Jan. 09 2005,08:00

DSL is fine... but sometimes if there is an issue, newbie get all huffy and whiney and give you a hassle about things. For example: trying to use a network adaptor on my motherboard isn't working under DSL. It is a pain to deal with.

I've hit that issue when people ask me why my PowerBook doesn't have a Start button, or won't do this or that. Newbies are funny to mess with if you tell them to press all the keys on the keyboard to run Windows 3.11, which they think is good because it has a decimal point in it... :laugh:

Posted by crackity on Jan. 13 2005,19:54

rofl. only in the lunix world would anyone decide 60hz refresh was in any way acceptable in 2005.

i think thats a bigger problem than 'no start button'

Posted by ke4nt1 on Jan. 13 2005,22:28

My box runs DSL at 75Hz,
but even at 60Hz, if I'm not around fluorescent lighting,
it's not to much of a nuisance..

It is NO problem for any of my LCD laptops to operate at 60Hz ..

And I'd have to agree,.. my kids are easily adapting to the menu, rather than reaching for the 'start' button...

See my blog about 'My Kids" for more detail..

73
ke4nt

Posted by _SD_Keo on Mar. 10 2005,03:23

DSL is great once you get it to load. I brought the live CD to my other box (gave it to a friend, poor boy had no computer!) and loaded it up. He was absolutely amazed that there's something better than windows. Great fun to mess with other nubcakes though..

On the other hand, I was a nublet ( all laugh at me). I knew more about windows than anyone else in my little hick town. And, (Here comes the shocker) I'm only 14 and I've coded a bunch of stuff, from half-life mods to chatbots. Alas, I was stupid and was showing off.. Got my hdd erased multiple times.. Now I keep to myself in the little winXP/DSL iron half-life fortress.. (And I leave with my signature and a phrase I love the most..) Ph33r.

Posted by green on Mar. 10 2005,03:34

....nublet

LOL

Posted by chaostic on Mar. 10 2005,05:37

I came from MacOsX.3
Found dsl familiar, and very usefull.

But it should be noted that I am used to terminals (X.3 and its Bash), compiling programs, and messing with the system files. Only difference is that with DSL, a quick reboot fixes most of those annoying problems I create by H4X0Rzing the OS's protected files.

Posted by linux_gal on Mar. 25 2005,22:37

I put DSL on a computer with no hard drive (in library). I have a 17 year old who wants it installed on to her hard drive. She **REALLY** likes it.
She wants to use it to write a book. IN the library she uses it to read E-books... The zoom is helpful also. I'm encouraging her to discover the other
things available in the distribution.:) :)