Kernel and Apps outdated

Forum: User Feedback
Topic: Kernel and Apps outdated
started by: modderxmaniac

Posted by modderxmaniac on June 22 2005,01:18

I love DSL. Its small,fast,and quite flexible. Figures, thats what Linux is all about.

But I really wish that the author would update the Kernel more often.

I cant install it on my pc since native SATA wasnt implemented until v2.6.

Also the apps are outdated, Firefox, XMMS. I believe keeping these things up to date will increase people's satisfaction with the overall quality of the OS, and will help ensure it will work on modern hardware.

Its worth the effort, so I suggest the author/'s to do something about it.

< kernel.org >

Posted by mikshaw on June 22 2005,02:22

Pardon my butting into your complaint, but since when does older mean obsolete? Just to clear up an apparent misconception, the 2.4 kernel is not being used in DSL because of a lack of diligence on the part of the author, but is being used because it is smaller, faster, and (i think) supports a greater amount of older hardware. I don't know anything about the prevalence of sata drives at this time, but my guess is that is is not yet worth the bother for a much larger kernel. Anyone who knows me to be wrong, please correct me.
I believe the same sort of thing applies to the other apps you mentioned. We see it all the time....applications adding file size with every release. Sometimes the extra size is justified, sometimes is just a dumb choice to double the size of an app just for the sake of a 'prettier' interface. But i digress....
Main point i'm trying to make is that there is and has always been a lot of thought put into deciding what should be added and what should be removed in order to keep the distro at 50mb or less, and at the same time be as friendly to old hardware as possible.

Posted by ke4nt1 on June 22 2005,03:00

There are many challenges involved with "keeping up" with the
latest and greatest kernel, apps, etc.. that are unique to this distro..

Keeping it under 50MB's is a constant challenge..
Other distros don't have this to contend with this issue.
They simply add another .iso, CD, or DVD to the mix to accomodate.

Support for older boxen is to be considered, especially with
this distro, which caters to recycling older hardware..
That fact makes this distro extremely popular worldwide..

Many of the apps included in the distro are updated as required,
for security reasons, or to add flavor and features to the mix,
when they do not add additional weight to the package.

Code bloat is the main reason that many apps are not
upgraded to the 'latest & greatest'. As many programs
migrate to gtk2, they are no longer useable in DSL.
( no room for gtk2 in DSL ) ..

...and while some newer apps offer more bells & whistles,
the ones found in DSL serve their intended purpose as faithfully
as the day they were new, with a much leaner footprint..

Same with newer kernels , which may offer modules or support newer
hardware, but at the expense of dropping support for older hardware.
Making a newer version ( i.e. 2.6 ) fit inside the 50MB wall, would
only aggravate this situation further, as more modules would be left out.

So, DSL could take the route of removing useful, but somewhat dated
apps, in favor of 'keeping up' with other distros, or offering a more
recent flavor of various apps and tools, but the userbase we have
now would scream in agony at the loss of speed, support, and increases
in ram and HD usage, just to move ahead in version numbers..

The real beauty in truth is that, if you REALLY want them,
( the fat, newer apps ) they are so easy to ADD to DSL,
once you've spent some time learning how to use the features
included in the myDSL system.. Firefox-1.0.4, Gaim-1.3.1, etc..
Hundreds of extra apps, just a click away, that are recent builds,
contributed by the userbase themselves, that 'plug-in' to the distro
with just a click or two.. No compiling, No configuring, No dependancies.

As for SATA support ...
Others here have success with their SATA in DSL ..
And there is some SATA support being passed down into the
latest 2.4 kernels also, so there is hope down the road here..
If SATA is all that is holding you back, grab an old boatanchor,
and get inside this distro to find out it's strengths,
or choose to contribute to improve on its weaknesses..

Keep an eye on DSL...
Enough said ! w00t !!

73
ke4nt

Posted by l0st on June 22 2005,03:56

now that you're done with your theories i'd like to say something more practical

i believe the firefox versioning should be as it is. i find the newer versions less comfortable to use; features such as the yellow bar thing disturb me.
the same applies for gtk2, as kent puts it

on the other hand i suggest we look closer before we dismiss 2.6
freezing the kernel might just stagnate the development os dsl as a whole. that said i don't think it's necessary yet. maybe a 1.2 release would be appropriate

Posted by SaidinUnleashed on June 22 2005,04:29

2.6 is most likely never going to happen, but an update to a version of 2.4 that supports more sata devices than 2.4.26 is possible.

2.6 is just too fat, slow, and drops support for too many legacy technologies to be what is "right" for DSL.

Posted by modderxmaniac on June 23 2005,15:06

Quote (ke4nt1 @ June 21 2005,23:00)

OK, I understand that now. If you can modify the kernel to be just as capable as the current version 2.6 without increasing size much, go for it!!

But it really seems as if you need some new compression schemes. But then thats means a need for extra ram and stuff..

I still use Windows XP, this is the attitude I tend to have about other OS's. I've used Knoppix but prefer this in some ways because its much faster on my 233 and leaves a much smaller memory footprint.

I'll be getting a 4 gig usb drive for dsl soon. w007!

But really, maybe it wouldnt hurt to make the iso an extra 5 megs, unless the mission is to keep it under 50 megs.

As for the SATA deal, I'm new with Linux, guess I needa read the guides.

In the end, keep up the good work. Just dont "fall backwards".

Posted by clivesay on June 23 2005,16:44

I'll weigh in here a little. I am a 1 1/2 yrs into linux as a Windows user. I have spent practically all my Linux time with DSL.

After you understand the philosophy and workings of DSL, you'll never be satisfied with another OS IMHO. Some of you will laugh at that comment but I'm serious. After you have run DSL in memory (toram mode) on a modest PC, how could you ever be happy with WinXP or any other large Linux distro?

I like apps to run when I click on them. I don't want to wait while they 'think' about running.

I like surfing the net cleanly without fear of spyware/viruses.

I like loading only the apps I need on the fly (click and run) ONLY when I need them, keeping my system resources available and ready to respond.

I like running by PC with my pendrive. DSL is really in a great spot for mobile computing. It was recently announced that lappys out sold desktops for the first time ever.

This is only a few examples. I run DSL on hardware that's a couple years old. In DSL, I have alsa accessing a SB Audigy 2 Platimum soundcard with great sound and an xfree and nvidia.dsl extension giving me 3d acceleration. Oh, and by the way, I have all of this running on my Sandisk 512mb microcruzer.

I don't have sata so no idea what I'm missing there. I just see no reason to worry about being current just for the sake of being current. Other than sata support I really am not aware of other things people are missing out on with the 2.4 kernel.

Keep an open mind. DSL can really do anything an average user needs to do on a daily basis and can do it faster than any other OS out there.

If you can't tell, I love DSL

Chris

Posted by mikshaw on June 24 2005,14:27

Quote

If you can modify the kernel to be just as capable as the current version 2.6 without increasing size much, go for it!!

That's pretty much what 2.4 development is doing, taking useful parts of 2.6 and fitting them into the smaller, proven kernel. So essentially, when you speak of a 2.4.2x kernel you're not really talking about an outdated kernel.

Posted by Bob489 on June 28 2005,15:56

is the kernel in charge of detecting all hardware? like usb nics?... i can't get dsl to detect my usb nic w/ 2.4.26... when i load feather with 2.4.27 it detects it no problem... i will try to create a remaster of dsl with the newer kernel to see if gets the hardware running in DSL...

thanks,
Bob

Posted by ke4nt1 on June 28 2005,16:30

Bob489,
What model is your USB nic?

I have a netgear MA111 wireless USB that works
with no issues, and no additional drivers or files needed,
so there is good support for USB networking in DSL.

Let us know..

73
ke4nt

Posted by cbagger01 on June 28 2005,17:24

DSL user Tronik created a custom remaster that features the 2.4.27 kernel.

It is not officially supported by DSL but it is available from his website.

I would give it a try and see what happens.