optional menu appearing twice in 1.3
Forum: User Feedback
Topic: optional menu appearing twice in 1.3
started by: damianiw
Posted by damianiw on July 18 2005,15:04
I've done my first frugal hd install with 1.3 - with grub - very nice !I've added the boot option mydsl=hda1 as i have an optional folder on here which wasn't appearing otherwise ??
the .dsl's i put in the root of hda1 were there without the mydsl=hda1
however I now have the optional menu appearing twice, can anyone else tell me if they get this or if it is just me or a problem with a frugal hd install ??
Posted by roberts on July 18 2005,16:37
The /optional directory was created way back in version 0.7.1mainly for having extra extensions on the mydsl.iso and not
auto-load but instead to offer a menu for them. This intended
use is no longer what is trying to be achieved and is no longer
necessary.
Today with DSL having so many new ways to install, and alternate
ways to load extensions dynamically it has been
discussed and decided that /optional will be deprecated
in the next release.
I would suggest to use many of the newer alternate methods.
Reasons for deprecation:
1. Not available when used with toram (users wonder why no menu!)
2. Confusing to new users with /opt (users put the extensions here and
again no menu!)
3. Having a submenu not really needed with all the buttons added to emelfm
to easily navigate and click to load.
4. Also, now offering mydsl directories seems to lessen the value of
/optional, again can boot from these, or emelfm on them for later loading.
5. Typically it would grow to an unwieldily size.
Robert
Posted by adssse on July 18 2005,17:07
Thanks for the insight roberts. I have been using /optional for a while now, but I realize what you said as being true. It is not really needed. Also thanks for keeping us up to date about it being depreciated in the next release.
Posted by damianiw on July 18 2005,20:54
Thanks I'll bear that in mind and use emelfm for occasional optional things
Posted by cbagger01 on July 18 2005,21:24
damianiw,While playing around with frugal USBHDD install, I learned that the /optional directory will appear twice IF you add the "mydsl=xxx" command even though the /optional directory is already located in the same partition as your /KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX file. So I would remove the mydsl=xxx command from your append statement and see if it goes away.
Posted by cbagger01 on July 18 2005,21:55
roberts,I may be in the minority here, but I still use the /optional myDSL functionality. It may no longer be needed, but it is still being used by some.
It allows me to easily and selectively load individual extensions in a seemless manner.
Call me lazy, but I like the ability to have a bunch of menu choices for extensions that I can fire off without using up my free RAM by default, especially on older computers. I also set up livecds and in some cases pendrives for my friends via this method and they can intuitively figure out the rest without using emelfm to dive into the filesystem.
1. Can be addressed by still creating the menu in "toram" and also adding a lua dialog message "myDSL load aborted - Please insert original myDSL source media and try again".
2. Rename the directory name to something besides /optional Maybe "noautoload" or something else that cannot be confused with the normal linux filesystem hierarchy.
3. Yes, it is possible to use emelfm instead of Fluxbox menu, but this is relatively cumbersome to do and it is not newbie friendly. At least "the Grandma test" level of newbieness.
4. myDSL directories is a nice new functionality relative to the old "/optional" concept, but in some areas it does not compare favorably. As I understand it, you cannot selectively post-bootime load INDIVIDUAL extensions via the mydsl directories. You either load all of the extensions in that directory, or you do not. I suppose you could create a bunch of small mydsl directories as a workaround but that could become unwieldy especially if you decide that you need to load a different extension after the bootup is complete. Also, you must specify all of that information on the boot command line, while the "/optional" stuff just works out-of-the-box even for novice users.
5. It is up to the user's preference as to how many optional extensions he chooses to install. The same thing (unwieldiness) can also be said about the base myDSL submenu if the user autoloads too many extensions.
As usual, this is just my opinion and is subject to my personal leanings and misunderstandings. You know the drill.
Posted by SomeGuyWithDSL on July 18 2005,22:38
| Quote (cbagger01 @ July 18 2005,17:55) |
| I may be in the minority here, but I still use the /optional myDSL functionality. It may no longer be needed, but it is still being used by some. |
Although I have not much experience, I too have found value in the current /optional scheme (although it could certainly stand to be renamed).
I am running on an older machine and like to load as few of the mydsl packages as possible. Those that are absolutely necessary and should be loaded every boot, I place in hda3 (which I have specified in mydsl=hda3).
Those that are not necessary, but which I do like to install and use on occasion, go into hda3/optional. They appear conveniently in the menu and I do not have to go through a file manager or, worse yet, download them again to use them.
I really have come to appreciate the /optional functionality in just a short amount of time.
Posted by adraker on July 19 2005,03:16
O.k., lost my post, hope things don't appear twice..
I'd hate to see /optional menu go
also.I use it a lot.
Posted by roberts on July 19 2005,16:41
Ye Olde Software Axiom: Tis easy to Giveth but nearly impossible to Taketh away 
Ok. It stays.
| Quote |
| Yes, it is possible to use emelfm instead of Fluxbox menu, but this is relatively cumbersome to do and it is not newbie friendly. At least "the Grandma test" level of newbieness. |
Really? If we are approaching that level of friendliness, then that is truly an achievement.
Posted by mgmont on July 19 2005,18:32
Roberts, I am glad you decided to leave optional in because I too really like that feature. Since it is so quick to reboot DSL, I can load a ram hog program, use it, reboot and it is gone until next time I want to use it. This is real handy for ram challenged older equipment.Thanks for a great product and your concern for us users!
Posted by cbagger01 on July 19 2005,19:29
Roberts,Thanks for deciding to keep it around. I understand that it becomes harder to test and ensure compatibility with functions like /optional as the overall myDSL system is both improved and of course also becomes more complex, so I appreciate the effort that it will take to preserve this feature.
As for the Grandma test, I can't comment specifically on such a test case. However, my dad (a Granddad for the second time as of 7/16 - mom and baby are doing fine) is more than capable of using DSL on his old Presario 4000N. Now if I could just get him to dump Walmart dialup for something that is more linux-friendly, it would be a done deal.
Regards,
-CB
Posted by clivesay on July 19 2005,19:39
CB - Congrats on the new addition!!!!I didn't know WalMart had dialup until I worked on an old couple's PC awhile back. WalMart has everything!!
Chris
Posted by ke4nt1 on July 19 2005,19:54
Great News !!Glad to hear all is well..
I expect we'll be seeing you on later hours at nite ??
(you probably will have wished you started this on a NEW thread!)
73
ke4nt
Posted by adraker on July 19 2005,20:36
Yes, congrats CB, and thankyouto Roberts!
...and the people did rejoice, all over the
land, and went back to pouring breakfast
cereal over themselves.....
Posted by adssse on July 19 2005,21:14
Thats wonderfull. Congrats and best wishes.
Posted by damianiw on July 19 2005,22:13
If I remove the mydsl=xxx the menu goes completely not even one entry, do I need to add a mount command to one of the startup scripts ? don't have to on a frugal install but then hd install is different 
Posted by MethodOne on July 20 2005,02:00
Here's the procedure that I'm going to try once the next version comes out:1. boot with "dsl toram mydsl=sda1"
2. store my optional extensions in /mnt/sda1/dslapps
3. create a link to dslapps in my home directory
4. load the desired extensions in dslapps
Posted by cbagger01 on July 20 2005,13:02
How about if you put your /optional directory in the same drive as your KNOPPIX file, ie:/boot
/KNOPPIX
/optional
index.html
and then get rid of the mydsl=xxx command
Posted by cbagger01 on July 20 2005,13:25
Thanks for the congratsAll is still well.
Posted by damianiw on July 20 2005,22:04
| Quote (roberts @ July 19 2005,12:41) | ||
| Ye Olde Software Axiom: Tis easy to Giveth but nearly impossible to Taketh away Ok. It stays.
Really? If we are approaching that level of friendliness, then that is truly an achievement. |
Wow
I got emailed about an update and didn't realise it would be back in before I had a chance to say please leave it !
Thanks roberts, and everyone who uses it like I do !
Posted by MethodOne on July 21 2005,01:21
I use the live CD method and run my extensions from a flash drive
Posted by damianiw on July 26 2005,10:07
| Quote (cbagger01 @ July 20 2005,09:02) |
| How about if you put your /optional directory in the same drive as your KNOPPIX file, ie: /boot /KNOPPIX /optional index.html and then get rid of the mydsl=xxx command |
If I have the optional folder on the same drive as /KNOPPIX so say
HDA1
/KNOPPIX
/optional
(I've missed listing the other files but they're there)
the menu does not appear, so I add the mydsl=hda1 and I get it twice
this is a frugal HD install
I don't mind I just wondered if I had done something or if it was a known problem ?
Posted by ke4nt1 on July 26 2005,16:04
The only time I see things in the menu duplicated, or repeated,is whenever you might have an improper shutdown..
( power-outage, etc.. )
Easy to edit the /.fluxbox/menu file, remove the doubled entries,
and make a fresh backup for future use..
73
ke4nt
Posted by adraker on July 26 2005,16:31
I had double optional menu when 1.3.0came out, due to the fact that I ignored everyones
good advice regarding changes to filetool.list.
I did repeat after clivesay that I would backup my
backup, but I'm a chronic Liar.
Fortunately, I had the same thing on another machine,
so after following the last advice from roberts, all has
been well.
Except for the custom xmms skins package that changed
perms for user dsl.
(How did that slip by?!?)