Come on, DSL ist to beat Win98!!!!!?
Forum: User Feedback
Topic: Come on, DSL ist to beat Win98!!!!!?
started by: NeroZero
Posted by NeroZero on Aug. 19 2005,12:14
Hi folks;I am seeking to follow-up on a recent Linux Mag article to get
old hardware up and running again... Here we go! It's a
laptop with a Pentium & 16MB RAM! Win98 runs on it without
any trouble so far. Now I went to a friend who burnt me a
nice .ISO Image CDrom on a new HP laptop, and on his machine the DSL popped up right away after re-boot and connected to the network and eventually the internet without
any trouble at lightspeed...
At home tough, the KNOPPIX boot promt comes, it gets my
NeoMagic graphiccard, my usb stick, me sb compatible
sound card, but when it comes to the point of starting up the X, then at most I ever got when playing around with FB vs. vesa and various resolution settings, was the desktop background with the toolbar at the bottom including time and date.. The CD drive runs and loads forevermore while the screen seems to hang
What can Win98 do, what Linux obviously in unable to? This
really bothers me here.. I do not want to having become a
rocketscientist, if you know what I mean..
Ok: Until we have (together) figured this thing out here, what about a solution 4 today? If I start it at "Init 2" (textmode),
then how can I run my COM-Port modem, start the Internet
services after having a pppd "Connect", TEXT browse with LYNX for example, if Dillo cannot do that (no clue?) and
use mutt-like textbased emailing software. BTW how do I
install this under MyDSL without X, and how do I save my
config at let's say my DOS/linux partition or my USB stick, so that I can cut short KNOPPIX hardware detection each time trying out DSL to its perfection?!
(R there easy PPP scripts found somewhere where I have to all but insert phone number, user & PW?!)
Afterall, its linux 4 damn small systems, hence you could offer a version (iso. image) that go much more stuff on the CDdrive to pick from?! (These 50MB took less then 10 min to download
on a DSL connection....)
Here on the site it is bragged that one runs a stream with a 16MB laptop (lol) I cannot see this happening with me here, or I am instructed. (but that is the thing with WINDOWS. You have it right there, eventhough it is a lousy OS all the way!!!)
Posted by adssse on Aug. 19 2005,13:34
I believe that I saw some place that you could boot into X with 16mb (maybe I am wrong?), but that seems seriously limited. As you stated you can use text mode by booting with 'dsl 2', as for your questions about running under text mode I am not much help. Would you consider spending a little to buy more ram?
Posted by skaos on Aug. 19 2005,14:32
You should be able to use X if you do a hard disk install. It won't be fast though.
Posted by NeroZero on Aug. 19 2005,14:45
First of all; I tracked this thread, but I do not get any emails of reply-notification?!I cannot BUY more RAM for an OLD PC
Strange, are you saying the X is worse than actual windows?!
Okay, I saq this "install" at knoppix boot prompt to save
a DEBIAN Linux to the harddrive.. How does GRUB (boot
manager) operate and do I have to boot the system on the
harddisc in order to set its hardware up?! What is the
order here?!
Is there an expert out here, who can confirm the 2 above replies with the 16MB running on HDD ?!
Posted by news.observer on Aug. 19 2005,18:24
Have you tried booting using the lowram boot option?IF you can do this, then you can try this strategy ... It's worked for me and lets me get DSL up and running on every slow old low-memory pc i have tried so far.
1) boot from the cd using the lowram option. If you can, maybe stay out of fluxbox (will use less memory). So drop out of fluxbox to the shell. Make yourself root. (sudo su ... or equivalent)
2) check to see that linux sees your devices, like the cdrom, hard drives and the netcard. (run&examine /etc/fstab ping lsmod etc.)
3) follow 'install to hard disk' < http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/talk/node/64 > instructions. The idea is to exploit linux's virtual memory feature FIRST, so as to give installation more (virtual) memory to use. (With only 16mb of real memory, this is what you want to try.) As instructed there, run cfdisk (or linux's fdisk) and make a swap partition (128mb), and a linux partition of 200mb or greater for the install. Details on the cfdisk, making swap & installing there in the dsl install docs (url above). I let the install script install lilo. (At this point I have to swallow hard because on some old pcs, I could ONLY boot dsl using windows file system (loadlin) and using cfdisk or fdisk wipes windows off of the system. No turning back! Gulp.
4) I've done it with 24mb ... for 16mb this may thrash the disk at times but hey, at least linux virtual memory gives you a chance to do it.
6) Maybe the virtual memory is why old M$ Win seemed to do better than new DSL: DSL linux hadn't yet been instructed to do swapping (= use virtual memory)? (I'm guessing)
7) Good luck!
Posted by NeroZero on Aug. 19 2005,20:01
If windows is thrown out of the lilo when Linux is put on, then simply by hand enter the hardrive partition into lilo where does is (fdisk), and then you have your "windows" back I am astonished, that here 16MB are praised and I have got not even graphics and Win98 on the same machine is giving
me full graphics
What I am going to try now is a Knoppix Live CD Professional 3.7 and then I will check if lynx and the net services are up and running? How do I init the Internet package, or how can I see past trying out PING, that it is on?! I simple pppd script and then I hope the IP addresses are given me be the ISP
Posted by news.observer on Aug. 19 2005,22:21
| Quote |
| I am astonished, that here 16MB are praised and I have got not even graphics and Win98 on the same machine is giving me full graphics |
Maybe you haven't hit upon the magic video settings yet? The Win98 graphics seems to indicate that the right settings probably exist at any rate.
Posted by Chuck on Aug. 20 2005,00:15
You are comparing a hard drive install with running from a CD? I've never seen Win 98 run with 16MB of ram from a CD either...
Posted by NeroZero on Aug. 20 2005,00:41
The main issue remains, that DSL autodetects my NeoMagic Card configures it and then KNOWS that there is 16MB of RAM.Knoppix for example aborts your CDRom-Running since it
takes 4MB Ramdisk and then says, you cannot start X. Now, when DSL already gives me partial graphics and then hangs, it ain't my fault
And all I am saying is: If I put it on HDD, I doubt that this will salove it right away. Nevertheless in Win98 I do not even have to bother
See, the computer is to serve me, and notthe other way around. If DSL brags to run on 16MB, you tell me how I can do it (Or the money back!)
Posted by ke4nt1 on Aug. 20 2005,03:08
Did you try to boot with the boot option "minimal" This should give you a lean ram footprint, while providing X ..
..at the boot prompt, type ' minimal '
A DSL HDInstall would also use less ram, giving you more ram for tasks.
Running LiveCD does eat more ram, since everything is running in ram,
unlike your Win98 install, which uses the HD to it's favor for storing files.
So, an apples to apples comparison would only be fair.
Most 16MB DSL users do install to Hard Drive ..
Another BIG help to you would be to make some swap space ..
Win98 also does this to your hard drive, trading HD space for virtual ram.
Win98 usually makes a file in your C:/ calles swapfile.sys , or similar
This command will make a swapfile for DSL to use on your Win98 partition ..
/usr/sbin/mkdosswapfile
or, use the menu in X under System > Setup DOS swapfile
Using all these tips will allow you an X experience on your box in 16MB's
Let us know..
73
ke4nt
Posted by Chuck on Aug. 20 2005,06:02
NeroZero, I think you should stick to Win 98.When you run from the CD DSL will create a ramdisk, which isn't needed when you do a HD install.
Posted by NeroZero on Aug. 20 2005,11:00
HOW DO I tell DSL to save its config at the text prompt? How doI tell it that there is an .swp already to be bound in at my
DOS Partition?
HOW IS the myconfig read from the HDD partition of my choice,
when at the beginning of DSL there is nothing yet mounted?!
Posted by mstrhelix on Aug. 20 2005,16:09
You should probably stick to winblows because it is idiot proof. And you obviously don't understand how dsl works
Posted by NeroZero on Aug. 20 2005,18:11
DSL minimal got me a cursor on the X and then stopped running lowram got me more of a desktop screen then aged me out and I
had to abort since it took way too long
I installed DSL on my hard drive and then I got this CLOOP: Read Error
which aborted the entire project right there
Not even a TESTCDis inside DSL?! Possible trouble, that my friend burnt the .ISO image
32x fold which is too fast for my drive? But it reads fine the booting
and all in the first place
:: BTW here are really a lot of DSL/Linux Experts
Windows all butepososes their lack of interest in the fellow's system..
Posted by farmall on Aug. 21 2005,01:02
It never hurts to burn live CDs at the slowest available speed. I use CDRWin trial which burns at 1x.There are plenty of small Linux distros, but on a machine like that with almost no ram I'd either stick to the command line or switch to FreeDOS.
< http://www.freedos.org/ >
Posted by NeroZero on Aug. 21 2005,08:55
BINGO: DSL VGA=771 host= On 30MB LinuxSwap File!!!It is all about logic, what we do not find here that much of?
The DOSSWAP can only be made, when the program is up and running
if you stick to the DSL boot prompter
(What a service)And your DSL 16MB AD here was probabaly on an HDD installation
and not like mine NOW with the LIVE CD.
Here it goes: All what you need is a Linux SWAP partition (YAST) which
DSL finds in /etc/fstab right away, and then it got my system
running: I used frambuffering for a start, got a fuzzy 8Bit
picture, but it works very fine for this humble beginning, and
I do not even need an Win98 DOS-SWAP: How is that fpr pure Linux!
Huraah..
Now let's get this old Lexmark Z11 printer going, the PPP and then
we can FIREFOX
Improvement: DSL should learn to scan for DOSSWAP on such partitions
and if there is none offer to create 1. This DILLO getting.started.html
should be included at the DSL boot prompt to read to give one a
much better idea where we are trying to go.. You must feel Linux in
order to beat Windows! Veni Vedi Vici
Posted by news.observer on Aug. 21 2005,17:53
You installed dsl! Congrats! 
Ya, setting up the swap (virtual memory) early is key to getting the PCs with low memory (under 32 mb) up and running. It is a bit of a bootstrapping process...
Now that you've conquered that PC, I bet you'll never look at another old PC the same way.
Kudos to all the damnsmalllinux folks who did this for us!