increasing the friggin' refresh rate!
Forum: X and Fluxbox
Topic: increasing the friggin' refresh rate!
started by: cognitive tweak
Posted by cognitive tweak on Dec. 21 2005,05:45the 60Hz increase question..
being a noob i have lots a questions. being a good noob, i first search the forum for answers. being a smart noob, i study all searched results to see if it answers my question. being a no-lucky noob i conclude that the question has yet to be answered (properly). being a no-quiter noob, i will try asking the question in such manner that i should get a direct and conclusive answer.
first i would like i illustate how hard life is for a noob, scanning through a forum only to find the question 1) unanswered 2) vague answered 3) contradictivly answered. the follow quote contains the most important and relevent quotes on the subjest posted by various users on the forum:
it seems this is a hot topic! and ofcourse! 60Hz is torture!! so.. ones and for all.. let's sum this topic up and make it conclusive.
For a HD-install, how to change the refresh rate? can this be done by downloading and installing XFree86? if so, how? what are the steps? i mean, is it a normal install, meaning, once you installed XFree86, it will be installed permanently, like a program you install in windows? if yes, do you need to configure something after installing XFree86 to get the desired refresh rate? if so, how? what are the EXACT steps for doing so?
For a BootCD, how to change the refresh rate? is this even possible? some posts suggested it is not. if it is possible, can it be done without downloading anything eg. XFree86? if so, how? what are the steps? if you do need to download XFree86, can this be done from a bootcd without any linux partitions on the HD? if so, how? where to save it to? it can be done using mydsl clicking mydsl on the desktop, am i correct? is the download and intall straight forward? is there anything we noobs need to know? ones downloaded, how do i get it to auto start each time the cd is booted? can this be done? how? using mydsl? by saving settings? burning it on the same CD the DSL boot is on? making my own mkmydsl iso? how? please, i need exact steps, not vague guide lines.
why am i stessing?
this is a very, very major drawback to DSL. 60Hz will scare people away. not giving a detailed guide with spefic steps on how to solve this problem, will make people never to come back. if linux is some secret l33t thing then i get why little help is available. if linux is a revolution agains M$ win$ then lots of help in the form of documentation and tutorials is needed.
i can't find ONE document titled: "how to increase your refresh rate". why not make one, with very clear steps, including everything from downloading xfree to using mysdl to save the setting for every boot. or using mkmydsl to make a new iso bootcd. for HD-install, BOOTCD, and USB-BOOT. can someone be kind enough to write up a tutorial for this? this will make not only OUR lifes easier, but also YOURS. i hope this post will round up this BIG & important question and that it can be used for futher reference when a "to-lazy-to-search-the-forum" noob comes asking the same question again. thank you, take care and peace - Cognitive Tweak.
Posted by Ronilution on Jan. 05 2006,23:17since no one answered the question on how to increase the refresh rate, i take it it is not possible..
..how can a simple program like anaconda which is used to boot install redhat detect my proper monitor and video card and give the proper refresh rate and an operating system can't?
too bad. damn, damn small linux. too lazy to program a proper refresh rate? then screw it..
Posted by mikshaw on Jan. 06 2006,02:13It's due to limitations of the X server, not due to laziness. The X server in a default DSL is super tiny compared to xfree86 or xorg, and so it does what is necessary to display graphics. If you want to increase the refresh rate you will need to install a fatter x server.
It's funny that 60hz has worked fine for years, and very few people complain about it. Personally i see it as the same as the 60fps argument in 3D gaming...a handful of people are outraged if they can't get 100 or more. In that situation, you change your hardware. In this situation, you change your software. In any case, I'm sorry if you feel 60hz is torture...i have the opinion that getting splinters driven under you fingernails is torture, but to each his own. If 60hz was so terrible, i'm sure that more than the occasional (one or two per year) user would bring it up.
DSL is TINY. It's a speck compared to Redhat or whatever other distro gives you a nice pretty desktop and every feature you could possibly imagine. Of course it is going to have limitations out of the box. The thing is, you can change it...you can make it what you want with a little work and a little research.
The conflicting responses are due to the fact that everyone on these forums is learning....none of us knows everything DSL can and cannot do. There are applications in DSL that are stripped down themselves....perhaps the Xvesa server on another distro can change the refresh rate, but DSL's can't. I know i made one of the quoted comments...my post was based on man pages for the xserver in DSL, but i was unaware that DSL used a different, or perhaps stripped, version. We live and learn.
Use DSL if you like it, make suggestions if you have any, ask questions if you have trouble. However, when you come here bitching about not having something that another distro has, and saying it's torture or "a very major drawback" or whatever, and particularly if you fling insults, you can expect to be ignored.
Posted by _pathos on Jan. 06 2006,04:25Umm Xvesa does have an option for frequency
refer to Xvesa --help
you just need to edit the line in ~/.xserverrc so that -screen WIDTHxHEIGHTxBPP is -screen WIDTHxHEIGHTxBPPxFREQ
Then just restart Fluxbox. I think. I can't test it or I'll blow up my laptop if it works.
I understand your fustration, I had it for several months. There is a lot of useless crap posted and such a small thing like this is unlikely to have a howto as it takes 2 seconds to find if you know where.
good luck learning linux.
Posted by cbagger01 on Jan. 06 2006,05:09The entier DSL operating system is probably about the same size as the RedHat install utilities + XFree86 or XOrg.
The "S" in DSL stands for SMALL. Not "So SIMPLE that a 3 year old can do it!"
If you want a simple answer:
Can a newbie who cannot do anything beyond robotically following some instructions step-by-step get a stock DSL system to run XWindows at something other than 60HZ?
If this is the answer that you were waiting for, then you got it so I hope you enjoy that self-satisfied feeling as you move on to a different operating system. CYA!
Now for the rest of us, the answer is clear:
The best way to get higher refresh rates in DSL is to install the XFree86.dsl extension and muddle through the configuration process until the configuration for your specific video card and monitor is complete.
For the more adventurous, you can try some alternative approaches:
If your video card has a special MSDOS configuration program that can change VESA refresh rates inside the card's BIOS, you can create an MSDOS boot disk to run this program and bump your refresh rate up and then start DSL via the loadlin MSDOS-to-Linux bootloader and the appropriate framebuffer code. Then choose the xfbdev server.
If your video card supports the VESA 3.0 BIOS EXTENSIONS, you can get a special MSDOS configuration program like VBEHZ that can change VESA refresh rates, you can create an MSDOS boot disk to run this program and bump your refresh rate up and then start DSL via the loadlin MSDOS-to-Linux bootloader and the appropriate framebuffer code. Then choose the xfbdev server.
If your video card has a special non-VESA linux framebuffer driver, you can boot up with this framebuffer and specify a higher refresh rate and then use xfbdev server, IF YOUR DRIVER SUPPORTS A LINEAR FRAMEBUFFER AND IS COMPATIBLE WITH THE XFBDEV SERVER.
There may be other ways to do it but they are presently unknown here at the forums.
HINT: If you don't understand anything in the second part of this post and are just looking for someone to spell it out for you or write some magical configuration program to do the work, GIVE UP NOW. I sincerely doubt that anything is going to change because the status quo has not changed since day 1 with this project, now in it's third year.
Posted by cbagger01 on Jan. 06 2006,05:12
Actually, WIDTH X HEIGHT X BPP X FREQ
does NOT work with the TinyX XVESA freedesktop.org server used in DSL.
The --help LIES in this case.
It is true of non-XVesa/Xfbdev servers like XNvidia or Xmach64, but is not true for these servers.
Posted by cbagger01 on Jan. 06 2006,05:31
Obviously, these people never did computing on either a 12" monochrome CRT terminal or better yet a 32x20 character image displayed on channel 4 of a black and white Zenith vacuum tube TV set that took longer to warm up than most modern bigscreen projection TVs. Or better yet, try using one of those Amiga interlaced graphics modes. If the 30Hz flicker didn't kill you, the whining sound from the monitor would drive you insane.
Of course, the latest rage nowadays is flatscreen LCD monitors, which renders the whole "60Hz" complaint irrelevent.
So maybe I jumped a little bit off topic... Sue me
Posted by AwPhuch on Jan. 06 2006,17:57Heh...cbagger01 is slowly loosing his patience!
on standard CRT monitors 60Hz is freeking killer..but the stock xserver has 60Hz compiled into it...you cant change
Posted by cbagger01 on Jan. 07 2006,04:58I think that the big point that continues to be missed is this one:
The VESA 2.0 graphics BIOS specification DOES NOT INCLUDE A STANDARD METHOD TO ADJUST OR EVEN SET A REFRESH RATE.
So it is not a case of lazy coders or missing code not compiled into an xserver. You can't change the refresh rate using Vesa 2.0 commands, in the same way that you can't watch a TV show in color if you only own a black-and-white TV set.
Maybe this is a better analogy:
Someone buys a Ford Taurus with an automatic transmission and complains:
Where is the CLUTCH pedal?
You lazy bastards did not include a clutch pedal in your car!
My friend with a Porsche 959Turbo 6-speed tranny has a clutch! Your Taurus does not! What gives?
Now picture me being the guy who has to explain to this genius that a normal AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION DOES NOT COME WITH A G** D**N CLUTCH ALREADY!
(But if you want to rip your Taurus apart and retrofit a Tiptronic transmission into it, yes in theory you could have an automatic transmission with a clutch if you have the skills to modify the engine, transmission and car frame and driveshaft yourself)
Phew. I give up.
Posted by bigscreenguy on Jan. 07 2006,23:09Well, if refresh rate can't be changed, is it possible to get other resolutions than what xsetup.sh gives as choices, say 1920x1200, for example?
Another thing to maybe "fix" is that clicking XVesa in the DSLpanel within X
gives less possible choices (max 1280x1024) than running XVesa from xsetup.sh (max 1400xSomething). That don't make sense.
I feel the wrath of cbagger coming... well bring it on, what are you waiting for dude?
Regardless DSL is way cool and you won't scare me away...
Posted by RoGuE_StreaK on Jan. 07 2006,23:51Once you've booted into DSL, you could maybe try editing .xserverrc (in home/dsl), changing the res, exiting X (Alt-Ctrl-Backspace), then restarting X by typing startx
Don't know about that particular resolution, but you can always try. Unless it blows up your monitor...
But as stated, if you want to increase the refresh rate, have a look at the xfree86 package.
Posted by Grim on Jan. 09 2006,06:32
cbagger, that was awesome!
I think I just came in my pants...
Posted by Man on Jan. 21 2006,07:39I would simply like to point out that DSL is very slowly pushing me toward an epileptic siezure as I type, not a complaint, merely an observation.
Is it at all possible to hack a tiny modification to force a call to Vesa 3.0 for a refresh rate?
Posted by cbagger01 on Jan. 22 2006,16:20I once tried to hack XVesa to call for a Vesa 3.0 refresh rate but I could not get it to work.
Probably because I am not a programmer and I know very little about video hardware interfaces.
In theory, it is possible. But the job is to be reserved for someone who knows what they are doing.
FYI, VESA 3.0 was not universally accepted like the old VESA 2.0 standard.
I think nvidia added vesa 3.0 support, but ATI did not. I could be wrong, though.
Posted by cognitive tweak on July 14 2006,01:12Reading through the replies was hilarious!! "adding a clutch to an automatic car" ROLF!!! touche, that totally answered my question.
I didn't mean to offend anyone by writing my post in the manner that i did. I respect the project DSL. I was only hoping my post would be persuasive enough to trigger someone to go out there and find a way to solve the problem (since i'm not skilled enough to do so myself) and to tell the forum how to.
Posted by brycen on Mar. 28 2007,18:50If it's not possible to change the refresh rate, then SAYING SO, right in the relevant DSL menu would save a lot of forum time. Us n00bs expect to find a simple way to set the refresh, so we beat our brains out looking for the simple menu option.
Put the disclaimer where it's needed -- in the menu where -- in a perfect world -- the setting would be.
Posted by brycen on Mar. 28 2007,19:30Wikipedia has a nice rundown of the VESA versions over at < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VESA_BIOS_Extensions > . Refresh rate was added as of VBE 3.0, released September 1998.
A next generation vesafb-tng driver, with refresh rate control, was done for Ubunto and Gentoo, and is available over at < http://dev.gentoo.org/~spock/projects/vesafb-tng/ > .
-Bryce ( < http://www.obviously.com/ > )