frugal strikes again!
Forum: Other Help Topics
Topic: frugal strikes again!
started by: roberts
Posted by roberts on Aug. 31 2004,22:12
I have uploaded a new "frugal" series script.This automates the task to install DSL 0.8.x onto a USB pendrive and make it bootable.
Instead of having a complete USB edition and downloading another iso, you can from a live running DSL 0.8.x cd and make your own.
Setup Instructions:
1. plugin the usb pendrive
2. boot from DSL 0.8.x cdrom
3. At the system menu select Shells->root-access
4. wget < http://ibiblio.org/pub.....tar.gz >
5. mydsl-load frugual_usb.tar.gz
6. frugal_usb.sh
Then follow the on screen prompts.
Be very patient. Even after all files are copied it still takes time to flush to USB device.
I have tested this script on the following devices:
a) Kingston USB 1.1 64MB
b) SanDisk curizer USB 2.0 256 MB
c) Iomega USB 1.1 64MB
d) Lexar JumpDrive USB 2.0 128MB
If you get an error of "mismatch not a multiple bytes", as I did on one of the drives, then I used fdisk to remove the "bad" partition and make a new one of type 6. Do not format.
Posted by SaidinUnleashed on Sep. 01 2004,02:02
teh sweet.I am going to have to try this right now. just gotta get a good burn of DSL that will boot on my desktop...
-J.P.
SaidinUnleashed
EDIT: All I get when I try to boot with my pendrive is the "flashy-flashy cursor of death" as my friend once called it. this was using a Lexar Jumpdrive 1.1 64MB. gonna try again with my generic 64mb 1.1...
Posted by John on Sep. 04 2004,02:55
This is easy as pie! I just did this to a CF card from one of those USB CF readers, so it works off of them too.
Posted by javamind on Sep. 04 2004,13:04
Hello,Thanks for the post. I was able to install DSL to a Memorex usb 2.0 travel drive. But an extra step was needed - I had to copy the boot directory on the CD Rom to the flash drive. Until I did this it would not boot due to missing file.
Also for wget here is the full path, so you don't have to spend 5 minutes looking it up (.....):
< http://ibiblio.org/pub.....tar.gz >
Posted by Mechcozmo on Sep. 06 2004,18:55
Err....I hate to say this...but when I insert the pendrive, how do I know 1) that it has been noticed, and 2) where it has been noticed? Eg, sda1 sda2
The utility is great, but auto detect features would be nice...
Posted by ke4nt1 on Sep. 06 2004,19:46
All autodetection of ALL your drives, HD, CDROM, USB, FLOPPY, etc..takes place during the bootup...
Have your USB key plugged in before you bootup.
Then you can plug/unplug at will once your up and running..
73
ke4nt
Posted by Patrick on Sep. 07 2004,07:55
Hello,I've got a sandisk mini cruzer 128 Mb and i keep getting this error:
Formatting /dev/sda1
mkdosfs 2.9 (15 May 2003)
Setting up boot loader on /mnt/sda1
Total number of sectors not a multiple of sectors per track!
Add mtools_skip_check=1 to your .mtoolsrc file to skip this test
Error writing boot sector
I've have tried to use fdisk to change/create a new partition but that didn't help.
What do i need to do (and how)?
Posted by Patrick on Sep. 07 2004,08:08
Hello,i tried frugal on my sandisk minicruzer 128 Mb (usb-stick) and got this error:
Formatting /dev/sda1
mkdosfs 2.9 (15 May 2003)
Setting up boot loader on /mnt/sda1
Total number of sectors not a multiple of sectors per track!
Add mtools_skip_check=1 to your .mtoolsrc file to skip this test
Error writing boot sector
What should i do? (HELP!)
I am booting from the CD and i can mount my stick.
Somehow i think that i should re-format/fdisk my stick but i don't know how....
Posted by ke4nt1 on Sep. 07 2004,15:40
Patrick,What is the output of " cfdisk /dev/sda "
Specifically..
1. How many partitions, 0, 1, or 2-or-more ..
2. What kind ( type ) Fat, ext2, 83, 6,
3. What is your c,h,s, counts .. cylinders,sectors,heads
If repartitoning or reformatting is required, which it sounds like,
This info will be helpful for us to guide you thru..
73
ke4nt
Posted by roberts on Sep. 07 2004,16:00
| Quote |
| Total number of sectors not a multiple of sectors per track! Add mtools_skip_check=1 to your .mtoolsrc file to skip this test Error writing boot sector |
Yes, I got that error too on my sandisk minicruzer.
However a simple delete parition and made a new partition of type 6 cleaned up the bad partition. This usually works on "smaller" usb pendrives. On large ones you must be careful to make a suitable partition of 32 sectors per track of 512 block and cyclinders not more than 1024. That is needed for syslinux to boot.
Posted by Patrick on Sep. 08 2004,17:23
Hello y'all,I have finaly got it right! I re-formated my stick and now everything works. (i did a detour in XP and formated the stick with HPUSBFW.exe, then i used syslinux.exe)
Thank you all for the advice...
Posted by ke4nt1 on Sep. 08 2004,22:59
Having more than 1024 cylinders is ok ONLY if your making more than one partition.. The FIRST PRIMARY partition, which it boots from, needs to have LESS than 1024 cylinders..
So if you've got a 256MB USBkey or larger, better cut it up into 2 or more partitions...
64MB or 128MB keys are no problem...
73
ke4nt
Posted by shade on Sep. 10 2004,06:58
I've an another problem...Fdisk shows that my sda1 has 42 sectors/track
is there a way to fix it?
Posted by johnm on Sep. 10 2004,14:01
Ok, I'm trying my hardest to get this Frugal script to work but its causing me some serious coffee and ciggy time...I'm not convinced that I am correctly partioning my disk, which in tern is causing my lack of booting from USB.
First up my USB Drive is reporting back the following in CF:
Heads: 33
Sectors Per Track: 61
Cylinders: 1017
This is a 1gb CF card, manufacturer by a1data.
I note that I am supposed to only have a max of 32 sectors per track but I really don't know how to change that as AFAIK that is defined by hardware ?
Secondly, what size and File Type should I make the primary partion ? Oh and should it be marked as bootable ?
I am getting mixed results with the Frugal script, sometimes it completes successfully, othertimes it errors with messages posted above.
I believe this is all down to the USB drive not being correctly setup but I really need some help
Cheers in advance
Posted by ke4nt1 on Sep. 10 2004,16:30
Use sfdisk to change your drive geometry..Try " sfdisk -S 32 /dev/sda "
That will bring up the sfdisk app, and change the geometry.
Then it will ask you for partition size data.
Make sure that your first partition is not over 1024 cylinders if you want to boot from it.
I made my primary 1 partition 75 MB in size, just to hold DSL and the bootfiles.
This also makes it SO EASY to upgrade whan another version comes out
so for the first line ..
1: 0 75
2: skip >enter>
3: skip >enter>
4: skip
save/write/exit
The rest of your keyspace can go into other partitions, at another time.
We're just trying to get the USB boot working for now.
now, reboot your computer, as suggested, so the drive table can be reread
by the autoconfig..
After rebooting, run "cfdisk /dev/sda" to check your drive geometry again.
You should see a 75 MB LINUX type 83 partition on the drive with 32 sectors per track.
If so, good deal, if not, you didn't successfully write to the USBkey from sfdisk
Now, while in cfdisk, use "type" option to change the type 83 partition to a
type 6 " FAT16 " , again write to the drive and exit and reboot to reread disk
Now, use the instructions found in roberts thread about using frugal_usb, or
if your running from 0.8.1 or better, use the Apps>Tools>Installto USB drive
I have seen several USBkeys boot just fine WITHOUT the dos boot flag .
YMMV
Also , see this post about changes to the frugal_usb.sh script.
< http://damnsmalllinux.org/cgi-bin....w;st=10 >
73
ke4nt
Posted by Mechcozmo on Sep. 11 2004,03:37
Why would command number 5 not work? After I type it it, the desktop seems to kind of refresh itself...hard to explain. Essentially, the command dosn't work. I am SURE that I am typing it in corrently. The command beforehand, number 4, works correctly. It downloads the file. At first, when I ran that command I thought that it had run correctly. But when I ran the next command, I was informed that the command was not found.BTW, I have a really nice screen shot...if I could only upload the image and not have it be on the web already....
Posted by johnm on Sep. 11 2004,12:50
Me again Ok, I followed your advice above kent and also read through and followed everything step by step but I am still borked
I think my problem is my complete lack of low-level device understanding
I ran sfdisk -S 32 /dev/sda and setup 0 75 etc etc...
However, when I get into cfdisk (after rebooting) I get the following:
Heads: 33
Sec/Track: 32
Cylinders: 1939
And, needless to say it won't boot
I have tried running sfdisk -S 32 -C 1024 /dev/sda and setting up the partitions but I cannot get the cylinders to change :o
Any ideas ? Or is this thumbdrive just complete carp ?
[EDIT]
I get the following error message when I attempt to frugal:
Total number of sectores not a multiple of sectors per track !
Add mtools_skip_check=1 to your .mtoolsrc file to skip this test
Error writing boot sector
[/EDIT]
Posted by ke4nt1 on Sep. 11 2004,13:02
No, and others have posted in different threads that they were successfuleven without the 32sector/track limitation, so there is hope..
What happens when you try to BOOT with your frugally installed USBkey?
Flashy cursor? "Boot Failed" , ?? simply continues to boot another drive ??
What is your BIOS set to do? USB-ZIP, USB-FDD, USB HDD?
Is your USB Keyboard enabled? DO you have a USB-DOS setting enabled?
The 1939 cylinders isn't such a problem, since your first FAT16 partition
is within the 1024 limit on a 75MB sda1 ..
My 512 MB key is the same way, no problems here..
Post up the output of your fdisk /dev/sda "P" function, so we can see your
drive geometry and partitions..
Here is mine... boots just fine !
Disk /dev/sda: 519 MB, 519569408 bytes
16 heads, 32 sectors/track, 1982 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 512 * 512 = 262144 bytes
Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sda1 1 267 68336 6 FAT16
/dev/sda2 268 1982 439040 b Win95 FAT32
Yet, here is another geometry posted up from emmet ..
Disk /dev/sda: 262 MB, 262144000 bytes
9 heads, 56 sectors/track, 1015 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 504 * 512 = 258048 bytes
Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sda1 * 1 233 58688 6 FAT16
/dev/sda2 234 1015 197064 b Win95 FAT32
Notice his 56 sectors/track .. and the 504 * 512
Also notice that I don't have the DOS BOOT FLAG enabled, he does..
I'm awaiting to hear what he has his bios set to ..
Follow this other thread for more info ..
< http://damnsmalllinux.org/cgi-bin....w;st=20 >
Also, others have had some success using a utility from HP to format
their keys.. Search google for an HP USB Format utility ..
It didn't help me, but has helped others...
Doesn't take long to try, fortunately, thanks to DSL's small size.. :-)
73
ke4nt
Posted by roberts on Sep. 11 2004,15:35
johnm, one more thing to try is to override the geometry requirement of 32 sectors. Since the script worked for me as I wrote it on all of my devices, I didn't think it was necessary. But now, seeing posts from several about drive geometry difficulties, I am wondering if this will solve your problem. If so I will incorporate it into the script.Open a root xterm
# echo "mtools_skip_check=1" > .mtoolsrc
then run the script
# frugal_usb.sh
Please report back if this works so others may benefit.
Posted by Marcus on Sep. 12 2004,04:31
hey, y'all...I am very interested in getting a bootable DSL installed
on my USB "pen" drive. Unfortunately, my system has
been having some "issues". I've currently lost my ability
to burn CDs... (from my Windows setup), but not before
I burned myself a copy of SLAX Linux ! :-).
I am interested in migrating to Linux, and would like to
be able to burn some CDs from Linux. However, as SLAX
needs to be run from the CD drive, I've not figured out
how to do that yet. ( My system memory is 512MB, but
I don't believe SLAX has anything like a "toram" function/
capability ... unless someone can clue me in otherwise.)
I've got a 256MB mini-cruzer USB drive, and I'm curious If
it is possible to somehow install DSL onto it by using
the "frugal" (script?) mentioned above, although I'd have
to get it installed while in SLAX, or if at all possible, Windows XP.
( otherwise, is there some "manual" way to do it ...
if the "frugal" method won't work for me ? ? ).
If that can be done, then I believe I should be able to go
burn crazy with my freed-up CD-RW drive, and whatever
utilities can do that (burn CDs) for me under DSL.
Thanks a bunch In Advance...
Marcus.
Posted by Lenaisan on Oct. 02 2004,20:51
Hi,Here is how I made my Sandisk mini cruzer 256 MB bootable with DSL.
Used :
Windows XP Home Edition
HPUSBFW.EXE
DSL Live CD
bootusb-0.8.img
mattrib
mcopy
syslinux
EmelFM
Root Access
Toshiba M30-104 Laptop
Sandisk mini cruzer 254 MB
1. Under Windows, format USB Pendrive with HPUSBFW.EXE in FAT (no need of system files ; may be done by fdisk ?)
Under DSL Live CD :
2. Mount /dev/hda1 to /mnt/hda1 (where I've put the files bootusb-0.8.img, mattrib, mcopy and syslinux on an ntfs partition)
3. Copy the previously mentionned files to /ramdisk/home/dsl with EmelFM (highlight files then click "copy" button)
4. Set executable flag for the files mattrib, mcopy and syslinux in /ramdisk/home/dsl via EmelFM (highlight files, right click button, select properties then permission..., click on button under "exec" in the line "user" then "apply to all" button)
5. Launch "Root Access" (right click on desktop, "XShells", "Root Access")
6. Type echo "mtools_skip_chek=1" > .mtoolsrc then Enter
7. Type syslinux -o bootusb-0.8.img /dev/sda1 then Enter
8. Mount /dev/sda1 to /mnt/sda1
9. Type mkdir boot then Enter
10. Type mount bootusb-0.8.img boot -t vfat -o loop=/dev/loop0 then Enter
11. Type cp boot/* /mnt/sda1 then Enter
12. Copy /cdrom/knoppix to /mnt/sda1 via EmelFM.
13. Reboot and set Generic USB HDD before HD into BIOS, save settings and exit.
You should have this on /mnt/sda1 :
boot.msg
f2
f3
german.kdb
knoppix/
ldlinux.sys
linux24
logo.16
minirt24.gz
syslinux.cfg
I'm only a newbie, but I hope this may help someone (this post is written under DSL Live USB Pendrive).
Bye
Posted by ke4nt1 on Oct. 02 2004,21:20
If you'll add the /boot directory from the CD, you can use your USB key for installing DSL to hard drives as well !
It will not interfere with the operation of your key,
and is nice option to have once you've used your USBkey to bootup a box ..
Curious?
Did the Apps > Tools > Install to USB Pendrive script in 0.8.2 not work for you?
It's a lot less work for those fingers ..
73
ke4nt
Posted by lenaisan on Oct. 03 2004,06:29
Indeed, the option Install to Pendrive didn't work for me (blinking cursor of death). I'm wondering if it's the key CHS or the BIOS which doesn't like it.But what is best, you can directly customize your DSL pendrive instead of processing some iso file.
Also, the CHS of my key are : 31-63-255. I didn't used sfdisk to set the sector to 32 as seen in other posts and stayed with only 1 partition of type e (Win95 FAT16 (LBA)) of maximum size.
I need to thank you for the frugal script where i've found most of the shell commands and the other users of the forum for the rest.
lenaisan.
Posted by ke4nt1 on Oct. 03 2004,13:18
Thanks for the CHS notes...I'm keeping notes of other folks contributed notes as well ..
Seems the 32 sector/track works for people who have the option to
boot from USB-ZIP ..
I also used the HP tool to partition/format my 512MB USBKey and place
a copy of MS-DOS on it. Like you , it booted flawlessly when the bios was
set as booting from USB-HDD ..
I'm hoping to get enough samples of successful installs, then tabulate some
hard data about what works and what don't for different BIOS options ..
USB-FDD USB-ZIP USB-HDD USB-CDROM or USB Device
USB Legacy or Keyboard emulation on/off , etc..
Thanx and 73
ke4nt
Posted by lenaisan on Oct. 03 2004,17:13
I've found an easiest way to make my DSL Live Pendrive under Windows only.Used :
Windows XP Home Edition
WinRAR
HPUSBFW.EXE
Extract 2.10 (< here >)
DSL Live CD iso
bootusb-0.8.img
syslinux 2.11
Toshiba M30-104 Laptop with PhoenixBIOS
Desktop computer with ECS K7S5A Pro and AMIBIOS (for testing)
Sandisk mini cruzer 256 MB
1. Format pendrive with HPUSBFW.EXE (FAT, no system files).
2. Extract contents of DSL Live CD iso to C:\DSLUSB with WinRAR.
3. Extract contents of bootusb-0.8.img to C:\DSLUSB with extract -e bootusb-0.8.img C:\DSLUSB in DOS box (unzip extrac21.zip into some directory in which you copy bootusb-0.8.img).
4. Copy/Move contents of C:\DSLUSB to pendrive x:.
5. Run syslinux.exe x: from DOS box into syslinux directory.
6. Reboot and raise Generic STORAGE DEVICE-(USB) upper HD in Harddrive sublist (boot menu) then save and exit BIOS.
7. Boot success !
I also tried this config over my desktop where I needed to select USB RMD-FDD into BIOS (Advanced Setup) and enabled USB Function Support and USB Function for DOS (Features Setup) to make it work.
If you can provide a zip file with contents of DSL Live CD and contents of bootusb-0.8.img, it will be like Feather Linux distro. Users will just have to unzip it to their pendrive and use syslinux.exe x: or syslinux /dev/sdan to set the bootsector.
Yet, I don't know if it works with every pendrives and BIOS.
lenaisan.
Posted by roberts on Oct. 03 2004,18:30
I don't see any difference in your method other than using a proprietary formating utility (HPUSBFW.EXE) and having to use WINDOWS. What you describe is on the cdrom documentation. What about those who do not have Windows? I would prefer to see some feedback when the script fails and trying the spb-mbr.sec file to see if we can achieve a self contained solution.
Posted by roberts on Oct. 03 2004,19:39
Apparently, the usb install script now in DSL works if your BIOS supports boot from USB-ZIP. Also, sometimes, it is also necessary to enable USB-KEYBOARD even if you don't have a USB-KEYBOARD. I am looking into finding a solution for USB-HDD boot. Again, I am limited to the hardware that I have access to test on. Any feedback to achieve a non Windows solution would be appreciated.Please don't take my posts regarding Windows based solutions as being critical of the user who is sharing his solution to getting his device to work.
I am just trying to avoid any dependency on other operation system.
Posted by lenaisan on Oct. 03 2004,21:47
Well, if you have a DSL live CD and a pendrive, I've also done this :1. Boot from DSL live CD
2. Launch Root Access
3. Type cfdisk /dev/sda
4. Delete all existing partitions on sda
5. Create new partition : New, Primary, 75 MB, Bootable, Type e
6. Write partition table then Quit
7. Exit Bash
8. Launch Install to pendrive : right-click on desktop, Apps, Tools, Install to Pendrive
9. Follow instructions : y, sda1, y
10. If you see the Done word, the install was successfull, reboot
It works on 2 of my computers (look at previous posts).
This time, the CHS is 1015-9-56 without using sfdisk and with the same pendrive than before (Sandisk mini cruzer 256 MB).
I don't have USB HD nor Linux distro installed on HD to help you Roberts, sorry.
Lenaisan.
Posted by Wierdthing on Oct. 27 2004,08:38
I too have a sandisk Mini cruzer (256MB) and it gets the same error. I have tried reformatting to type 6 and it still gets the error and then when i go back into fdisk the partition is no longer theresome stats from Cfdisk
Size (MB) 256.38
Sectors 500736
Cylinders 978
This partition is Free space as for some reason the frugal_usb thing gets rid of any partition that I previously have on it.
Posted by gknuth on Nov. 01 2004,02:25
So, I'm trying to follow this, and I think it'll work just fine, but I can't tell if DSL detected my USB key...I can boot from the key, but decided that I wanted the "frugal" install so the OS could be live-cd-like. I've tried to run the script, but it doesn't see the key. I used the same path as it was when I booted (/dev/sdb1), but I just get an error saying "no such device or address".
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Gabe
Posted by gknuth on Nov. 01 2004,14:49
nevermind...decided to lose the USB key...I was gonna have a hard drive anyway, so why not just do a frugal install there
Posted by homry on Nov. 07 2004,19:37
| Quote (ke4nt1 @ Oct. 02 2004,17:20) |
| Curious? Did the Apps > Tools > Install to USB Pendrive script in 0.8.2 not work for you? It's a lot less work for those fingers .. |
this also didnt work for me. i prepared my stick just the way you described it above (additional i marked the fat16 partition as a boot partition. was this maybe a mistake? after one more reboot, i couldnt access the usb-pen at all anymore. very strange. also i had very long breaks during the boot process of DSL, while the system checked the usb devices. something went wrong and i dunno what it is). the usb-install-script asked where to install DSL, which was sda1 and then the usb-pen flashed once, the terminal closed itself and was it.
now i try this other tutorial ((http://damnsmalllinux.org/static/act-ST/f-17/t-3153))
but sad that it didnt work with the DSL live cd. this would have been a neat thing, but since i have no clue what it could be, i will just try another way. maybe someone can light up the dark a little bit
.homry
/edit: i cannot even try the other installversion, because my usb-pen seems to be totally screwed up. my standard linux system wont boot anymore with the stick plugged in. with dsl the stick wont get recognized anymore, so i cannot partition it further or delete partitions or format the pen. in windows an usb-pen is recognized, but i cannot write to it. the HP-tools tells me that the stick is write-protected, when i want to format it. but there is no trigger for writeprotection on the stick. for information: its a sandisk cruzer 512mb.
can someone help me in this issue? thanks
Posted by meo on Nov. 14 2004,15:01
If the bios of my laptop doesn't support booting from usb what can I do to try out DSL installed on a usb-drive? Thankful for any suggestion.Have fun y'all,
meo
Posted by cbagger01 on Nov. 14 2004,20:13
Try downloading the usb boot floppy image from the dsl web site and use rawrite2.exe or rawrite32.exe to write it out to a floppy disk.Then boot with this floppy.
Posted by meo on Nov. 19 2004,20:37
Thanks cbagger01 for helping me out with making a boot-disk to make usb-booting possible on my machine. That was just a part of the problem though. I have the infamous SanDisk mini cruzer 256 MB with witch so many have had problems when trying to make a frugal install of DSL. With help of the posts of “roberts” I finally made it work. I have made a little HOWTO so that others may benefit from the conclusions I have made. So here it comes:DSL->USB-HOWTO
Setup instructions:
1. Plugin the usb-drive
2. Boot from DSL 0.8.x cdrom
3. Copy the files: bootusb-0.8.img and frugal_usb.tar.gz to your home directory
4. At the system menu select Shells-> root-access
Issue the following commands:
5. #mydsl-load frugal_usb.tar.gz
6. #echo “mtools_skip_check=1” > .mtoolsrc
7. #frugal_usb.sh
Then follow the onscreen prompts and it should work (at least it did for me on the infamous SanDisk 256 MB mini cruzer). I might mention that I started with reformatting it under Windows with fat32. Hope someone have some use of these lines.
Have fun Y'all, ten four,
meo
Posted by jim_the_inept on Nov. 28 2004,18:01
| Quote (Guest @ Oct. 03 2004,13:13) |
| I've found an easiest way to make my DSL Live Pendrive under Windows only. (snip) Yet, I don't know if it works with every pendrives and BIOS. lenaisan. |
This method worked for me on three different flash keys:
1. A Transcend Jetflash 256 MB
2. A Crucial Gizmo 512 MB
3. A Sandisk Cruzer 1.0 GB
ONE TIP: On my Thinkpad T30 it matters which of the two USB ports one uses. Viewed from the back I use the right hand port.
Once you have the install files installed to a directory it only takes a couple of minutes to set up a new key. Cool.
Thanks for your help - I really had a struggle with this before reading your walk-thru.
- jim
Posted by batman on Dec. 10 2004,03:43
Thanks meo worked like a charm. Hope that automatic install doesn't go away or others like you and usul or I'm dead! Thanks batman 
Posted by Tekka on Dec. 13 2004,04:16
I have a SanDISK curzer micro 256MBI only created one partition for 75MB with FAT16 as the file system.
When I run frugal_usb.sh, it fails when it tries to mount bootusb-0.8.img to /dev/loop0
It says the device does not exist. I see it in the /dev folder.
I even took all the steps manually. It can't mount the "boot" folder with the filesin the img and also when it tries to copy the KNOPPIX folder, it fails there as well. I can alwassy copy it manually, but really need help wit the /dev/loop0 issue.
Your help is greately appreciated.
Posted by v_lestat on May 06 2005,16:19
oops wrong topic