usb troubles
Forum: USB booting
Topic: usb troubles
started by: davide
Posted by davide on July 11 2005,18:07
HiI bought a iomega micro mini usb drive 520 mb, to use it on my panasonic thoughbook P2 300 Mhz, 128 Mb ram.
I bought it on purpose to install dsl usb and boot from it (I will need a boot floppy for it, because my bios does not allow me to boot from usb, but that will come later...)
what i did is to erase the 520 mb partition, with fdisk and created 2 partions zith the "n" option in that program.
both Primary, on is 83 (linux) and one is b (win 95 fat 32)
the first 70 mb, for installation, the second one, 450 for data and settings storage
first of al I have this question: Since I couldn't find, in documents and forum, any "usb-install how to". neither I could find that "frugal strikes back how to", that i noticed it's frequently mentioned. Do these how-tos exist?
I cannot even tell the difference from usb-zip install,usb-hdd install, frugal-usb. what's the difference? considering I will be booting always from usb, which one will be less stressing form the usb drive? (I know if you use it too hard, it can break down)
Also: I tried usb-install from the manu entry (tools ->install to usb)
but a window quickly appears and then disappears. too fast to read message. but, in sums, it just does not work. Why? any idea?
the mount.app does see the two partions, tought my imac does not (i get a message: "you inserted a drive that mac OSX cannot recognize". before I modified partitions, It could).
last question: is 70 mb enought for the install partition?
can anyone help me out of this troubled times?
Posted by cbagger01 on July 12 2005,03:27
If you will always be using a boot floppy, the solution is easy.Download the dsl embedded zip file.
Create and format a single FAT (or FAT16, NOT FAT32) partition for both Windows and DSL.
Unzip the contents of the dsl embedded zipfile into your usb drive.
Create a DSL usb boot floppy.
Use it.
Posted by davide on July 13 2005,17:51
thank you I will try that
but I still miss the answer to many of my questions: what does frugal-usb mean. is this the best way I should install to usb?
also..are there any docs around (so that I don't need to bother anyone)
I will let you know, anyway, about the embedded solution.
Posted by cbagger01 on July 14 2005,02:38
frugal-usbmeans that you are doing a "frugal" style installation to your USB pendrive.
Frugal is different from a standard hard drive install of Linux because it keeps the main filesystem (stored in the compressed file /KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX) in the compressed and read-only state, which is very similar to the way that you run DSL directly from the read-only livecd disk.
Some of the advantages of the frugal install are:
Your critical operating system files are stored in a read only filesystem, so it is hard to really mess up your system. Most "oops" situations can be solved by simply rebooting the computer
It is very easy to upgrade a frugal system to the newest version of DSL because in most cases all you need to do is replace your /KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX file with the newer file from the latest DSL livecd and you are now up to date. No need to re-install the operating system.
Frugal is also great for drives (and usb devices) that have a small amount of available storage space. Because the main filesystem is stored in a compressed state, it takes up much less room than a full hard drive install. Kinda like the way a MSWindows install CD is much smaller than the total space used by all of the MSWindows files that appear on your hard drive after you do the installation.
Finally, frugal is a great option for people who use Flash memory devices instead of a hard drive. For example, a CompactFlash card can be used as a small hard drive if you buy a little adapter plug. Most USB pendrives are Flash Memory based devices. Why is this a good option?
Because Flash drives can sustain only a limited number of disk write commands until they stop working. Something like 100,000 writes or so. This sounds like a big number except that traditional installations include virtual memory or "swapfile" or "pagefile" that can get written over and over multiple times per SECOND. Web browser caches like "Temporary Internet Files" also do this while you are surfing the web. So a traditional hard drive install to a USB flash drive will kill the device within a few weeks or months depending on the use.
But the "Frugal" install is read-only and all of this temporary stuff is stored in the computer's ramdisk so your USB pendrive is safe. Normally, the only time that the drive experiences a write command is when you shut down and your Backup routine saves your compressed backup file. This is a once or twice per day event instead of a multiple times per second event.
So these are some of the benefits of a frugal usb install.
Posted by davide on July 19 2005,15:36
ok. thanks A lot, It worked!now, the point I still don't get is..what am I phisically doing? is the system running in ram, like "toram". is the system running like "from cd"? I guess so, but if so..why does it create a ramdisk?
All the extensions i get...will tehy be lost after I reboot? Or should i add any path to the filetool list?
Posted by cbagger01 on July 19 2005,19:08
Most of the system is contained inside the compressed KNOPPIX filesystem. It is read-only, so it works on both hard drives/usb drives and also CD-R disks.The smaller, read/write portion of the system is by default stored inside a ramdisk. This is why you can write to it when using a livecd and you can also write to it many times without wearing out a USB flash drive. Unfortunately, you will lose any data that is stored in the ramdisk upon power loss or shutdown of the computer. This is why the backup/restore system was added to DSL. The backup/restore system will save selected parts of your ramdisk into a backup archived file once upon shutdown (must be saved to a writable device like a floppy, hard drive or USB drive). It is then automatically restored upon reboot into DSL.
Your extensions will get lost upon reboot unless you back them up or save them to a writable storage location.
The right place to save your extensions for an embedded system is the virtual harddisk. I believe that it appears as either /mnt/hda or /mnt/hdb.
You will need to use "Emelfm as Super User" in order to copy the extension files over to this place.
Posted by davide on July 20 2005,06:28
mmmthe backup.tar.gz file is in the root dir of my sda1 (usb key) but it does not seem to restore at boot.
also, my extensions are in the same usb key: must they be in the root dir as well? are they supposed to be seen and restored automatically at boot? or shall I click and "mydsl" them everytime I boot and need them?
thank you for your help
davide
Posted by cbagger01 on July 20 2005,13:17
If your usbkey is plugged it at boot time, it should automatically restore.If not, boot with:
dsl mydsl=sda1 restore=sda1
and see if it works.
Posted by davide on July 21 2005,06:28
thanksit does see the .dsl files on the root dir of my usbpen, now.
But it still does not restore
not even if i try to restore when the system is running.
In the filetool list i added /home/dsl/.fluxbox/menu, because I translated it into italian.
But when I boot the menu is always the default one. maybe this time because mydsl recovery script overwrites it?
(by the way thank you very much for you help, cbagger01)
Posted by ke4nt1 on July 21 2005,07:29
Drop the leading slash, and see if that helps..home/dsl/.fluxbox/menu
If you are running DSL-1.2.1 or 1.3.1
there should be a line in your .filetool.lst that says
home/dsl/
This SHOULD backup most everything in /home/dsl,
excepting what is listed in your .xfiletool.lst
73
ke4nt
Posted by davide on July 23 2005,08:07
I will try that as soon as my laptop comes back from the repairing labthank you!
Posted by davide on Sep. 18 2005,09:14
it works quite well.but I'm switching back to dsl 1.4
in fact, 1.5 does not let me swap thebgimage and al permissions seem to be changed. i cannot write to dsa1, nor to hda1 no t even to home/dsl (to modify menu, i.e.) that sound weird to me, I must have done something wrong. but I was confortable with 1.4. so, untill i understand it better I will keep 1.5 emebedded zip stored somewhere.
thanks a lot for your help folks