starting dsl at winlogon window before win starts?


Forum: DSL Embedded
Topic: starting dsl at winlogon window before win starts?
started by: ZoOp

Posted by ZoOp on Sep. 23 2005,10:08
This topic is an extension of a precedent discussion falsly posted at < http://damnsmalllinux.org/cgi-bin....47;st=5 >

Please, just go to this link in order to get in touch with the context of my problem and the answer by B@se and cbagger01 . Here a short summary of the discussion:

context: students working on middle-ranged computers (1,5 GoHZ, 512 Mo to 1 Go Ram, barebones, strong boot limitations) in a school with network support and winxp locally installed; I=linux and dsl enthusiastic newbie, would like to work with DSL_E.

problem: because of hardware limitation for usb-boot (no usbzip and even no usbhdd boot possibility on any machines), cd-rom and floppy boot (no cd-rom, no floppy as well) and in order to get my students using dsl without knowledge of it and of linux, I want them to use dsl-E prepared on a usb-flash drive (with other extensions as abiword, etc.).

Advantage in my view: security (no virus), mobility and reliability (=possibility to work on every win system recognizing usb and to use your usb-key as normal storage device at the same time).

Inconveniant: I don't want them to start dsl-E from within winxp (reasons detailed in the other thread, please visit link above); I just want to use winxp in order to mount the hardware and to start dsl-windows.bat; so, I basically just want to plug a usb-key with dsl-E on that drive, starting the computer, starting then winxp until I arrive *in front of* the window logon of winxp with pictures of your profile and the guest profile; once there, I would like to make dsl-windows.bat running without going *inside* windows.

questions-answers: Why not going inside xp (my students always have and will have the possibility to login as guest and to go inside xp)? Because I want them to know the advantages of mobile computing and encourage in that way the use and development of dsl. Second, if my students go *inside* windows in order to start dsl-E, they better would like to use windows, because they always work with billy stuff and feel the environnement more familiar (less complexe in their view). So, why don't you make a dsl-HDD install? Because my students are new to linux and after first tests, they feel insecure if they cannot switch to winxp, so that I have to let xp installed on computers.


B@se solution was to boot on the usb-key as separate device, configuring the bios for that. Unfortunatly, I have strong bios limitations, so that this is not a viable solution for me. cbagger01 sees no other possibility than running dsl with cd-rom; the problem is that our computers don't have cd-rom or a floppy.

My trying (without success): 1) I made a *.bat file to be launch at login in win xp starting dsl-windows.bat; it works, but when login, winxp first opens before dsl starts, so it is not the solution I'm looking for; 2) another idea would be to add a line in the boot script of windows in order to tell to windows to start dsl-windows.bat at the end of windows boot procedure; but I don't know if it is possible to do that and how; 3) a variation on a analogous solution could be to make dsl-windows.bat starting after typing the login (and not the password) in the winlogon window; but here also, I don't know if it is possible to do that and how. 4) other solutions: dual-boot possibility with dsl-HDD-install doesn't fit my requirments, because the students will probably switch on xp; reversing the problem, installing dsl on HDD and installing Win4Lin Pro 6 in order to work with linux and to access winxp from within linux also doesn't totally fit my requirements, but could be an interesting solution; however, I don't know if dsl support win4Lin Pro.

Why this all? We want to get rid of windows and we want to bring our students working with dsl (in the basic or extend version, i.e. installed extensions). That is the ideological reason. Naturally, we don't want that our students loose time or feel uncomfortable with linux; not anybody has knowledge enough, time or interest enough in order to solve a problem or read a thread when something is not going on as expected. This is the pedagogical reason why we would like to keep winxp in order to give our students a base secure and also a comparative  standpoint in the possibility to use both of win and dsl systems. Finally, I ask this for fun and in order to extend the use of dsl and linux based systems.

I am quiet new to linux and dsl (I apologize for possible non sens in my thread to whom of us who knows it all better than I) but I find the project incredibly interesting and your work on dsl is a very powerful one, that I try to support in order to make our students working with your system. Just go ahead!
yours sincerely
Z

Posted by mikshaw on Sep. 23 2005,15:14
Note: This is not fact or based on experience...it's just how i understand the situation...

As far as I know, it's not going to happen.  DSL embedded runs in Qemu...it does not run natively in windows.  Qemu, being an emulator, requires a host operating system in which to run.  You can't bypass the operating system in order to run a program that requires that operating system.  If you want to run DSL without running a host system, you will need to dump embedded and use the standard DSL....which will give better performance anyway.

Posted by ZoOp on Sep. 23 2005,15:59
@Milkshaw
thanks a lot for your answer.
I supposed dsl-E could be started in this situation because winxp has been completely loaded. I believed that you don't need the desktop environment of win in order for qemu to run because qemu can also be emulated in freedos. It is probably mistaken because of my very limited knowledge in qemu.
Sorry for time lost and again, thank you for your help.
yours
Z

Posted by mikshaw on Sep. 24 2005,03:37
Qemu may run in DOS, but maybe you didn't realise that windows no longer has DOS as its base.  Ever since the release of Windows ME and 2000, the GUI is the base interface...the "DOS" that you get from it is now actually a shell that runs on top of the GUI Windows, rather than the other way around....so the operating system now depends on a GUI.
Posted by ZoOp on Sep. 24 2005,07:39
@Mikeshaw
thanks a lot for your answer. Yes, I knew that winxp don't have a Dos. I would like to install one in order to start in command line and then to get dsl running. It maybe can work, but after discussion with our board at school, it could be fear our students (not my opinion). Anyway, another possibility very near to B@se solution is to do a frugal install or HDD install (differences between two installation are clear). So that only one of my questions remains, namely: would Win4Lin Pro work with dsl, in order for my students to access to some win applications (application for statistic calculation for exemple, with graphs and so on)? Yesterday, I read a message of Keo-Keo on the forum about wine and dsl. Sounds interesting.
I think, this open another topic in "Applications", so that I remove my question in order to formulate it in the appropriate place.
Again, thank you very much for help, I learn a lot.
yours
Z

Posted by killermist on Oct. 13 2005,06:17
Might or might not be the solution you're looking for.  But, it might lead others to a more workable solution for you.

Once upon a time, I heard of custom versions of Windows 95 and 98 where instead of launching the Explorer "shell", it launched Winamp or some other program as the shell (because it didn't need the features and desktop provided by Explorer).
I don't know if this is an option for the machines you're using because it would effectively remove a lot of the expected functionality that others might want and expect to be provided by XP.

Posted by mikshaw on Oct. 13 2005,15:40
Any way you look at it the users will not get the "expected functionality" unless you are providing Windows to them.  He apparently doesn't want Windows running, and Linux is not an interface to Windows programs, so i can't see any reason to use embedded in this case (unless maybe there's some hardware that DSL is not supporting?).
Posted by Rimini on Oct. 18 2005,09:50
Hi,

you should have a look for the coLinux, which is a special Linux kernel that can be loaded as a windows xp service, and than boots a Linux system under Windows XP nativly.

The only problem is, how to get the access to the coLinux system without to enter the Windows system. Windows XP and coLinux communicates via TCP/IP and you need a client (e.G. VNC, NXclient) under Windows XP to display the Linux X.

On the other hand, you can install coLinux as service of Windows XP and export the Linux X to a Windows X-Server, which is running as a service also. This could solve your problem, but I don't tested this.

Rimini

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