Tweak for the "Getting Started" page
Forum: DSL Ideas and Suggestions
Topic: Tweak for the "Getting Started" page
started by: cbagger01
Posted by cbagger01 on Feb. 15 2006,05:53
"Help, please tell me how to remove the getting started window from appearing everytime I start DSL".Solution #1:
Provide the answer, or tell them to search the forums.
Solution #2:
Create a button at the top of the "getting Started" page and some wording that says "Press this button to prevent this popup from appearing again in the future"
Then if button is pushed, execute script that "touch"es and create a file called $HOME/.nogettingstarted
Then, in .xinitrc, IF file .nogettingstarted EXISTS, then DON'T launch Dillo/gettingstarted automatically.
If the user needs to bring it "back from the dead", we can add a new fluxbox menu item called "getting started" and it will launch dillo and show this page for them.
Good idea?
Posted by roberts on Feb. 15 2006,06:17
I will tell you why I haven't done this.1. Like with Windows the user will instantly "get rid it" and never bother to read it.
2. Then instead of just one question repeatedly asked it will be many questions that will be repeatedly asked.
3. At one time I was thinking to use a "?" icon for help and not start it at boot time. But on some systems a delay is needed for X, icons, and menu to work properly. On some pre-releases I forget and have it commented out, then I am reminded that it is needed. Even though it may well not be needed on your particular system.
There is so much to learn from reading the Getting Started and the hadrware issues is why I have been recluant to do this.
Posted by cbagger01 on Feb. 15 2006,06:31
Hmm...Maybe the button should go at the very end of the page so they have to read it first.
Or maybe just add a section called "How to remove this page from automatically starting up again" (no bold text) near the bottom.
This forces the user to actually READ the document before they learn how to make it stop popping up again and again.
It also adds to the SSF (Smug Satisfaction Factor) for people who can now reply to the "help" posters with:
Did you actually READ the thing before asking here?
Posted by roberts on Feb. 15 2006,10:56
Now that, I like. Good idea. 
Posted by Onikage on Feb. 18 2006,21:17
It doesn't make any sense to alienate former Windows users, by making it difficult to remove annoying popups. That kind of high-handed behavior will simply hold desktop linux off the desktops longer. After all, users DO need support.So; for any newcomer to DSL, here's how to control the popup...
In the address bar appears the path to where the help page is located.
####### Note: on a live CD this will only be temporary, to permanently fix you will need to remaster your CD with the mkmydsl tool found under...
DSL (menu)
L
Apps
L
Tools
L
Make myDSL CD remaster
---- To Admin: Windows users like visual tree structures
Anyway, to get rid of the popup page the file path should look something like...
file:/usr/share/doc/dsl/getting_started.html
What this address is telling you is that the file (getting_started.html) is in the directory...
/usr/share/doc/dsl/
Which visually looks like:
/
L
usr
L
share
L
doc
L
dsl
The best way is to open up a terminal shell (ATerminal) and type
cd /usr/share/doc/dsl
This takes you to the directory.
Type ls
Which lists the file getting_started.html
Now, this won't stop dillo from starting, but you can always save a new getting_started.html and graphics from a favorite web page, and now you have an autostarting web browser that opens a favorite webpage.
(Might also be useful for when you're reading an html ebook
......... As for the folks who started this topic, shame on you for displaying your rude opinions to newcomers like that.
| Quote |
| The useful master delivers his teachings without making a fuss. While the worthless master delvers his teachings, while trying to make his student feel worthless |
Posted by marcus on Feb. 18 2006,21:29
Good point!Why push away users like that?
Posted by mikshaw on Feb. 18 2006,21:56
Holy cow, Onikage....not only are you way off about shameing people for "rude opinions", but you also took what would otherwise be a simple task and made it extremely complicated...and it still doesn't stop the popup, which is what i assume is the annoying part. Did you ever work for Microsoft?The browser (dillo) is started from /home/dsl/.xinitrc. Edit the appropriate line and backup the file...done.
The getting started page is a major necessity for anyone who is just starting with DSL, unlike the so-called help that Windows presents. Getting Started tells you some of the fundamentals of using DSL, so you don't have to do things like tear your hair out when you lose everything you thought you had saved. If you spent any time in these forums you might notice the multitudes of duplicate posts from people asking things that were answered on that page. those numbers would sure increase if it were as easy as clicking a button to get rid of something that is there to help you.
And once again, I don't believe anyone in DSL development has ever said anything about wanting to cater to Windows users.
Posted by Onikage on Feb. 18 2006,23:05
| Quote (mikshaw @ Feb. 18 2006,16:56) |
| Holy cow, Onikage....not only are you way off about shameing people for "rude opinions", but you also took what would otherwise be a simple task and made it extremely complicated...and it still doesn't stop the popup, which is what i assume is the annoying part. Did you ever work for Microsoft? The browser (dillo) is started from /home/dsl/.xinitrc. Edit the appropriate line and backup the file...done. |
Impressive! I didn't know that people with rude opinions traveled in packs (or is it schools Mr. Ghoti?)
Gee, I guess I should be ashamed for not being airheaded enough to forget that migrant Windows users don't necessarily even know how to edit a file like that... But hey milkshaw, you must know more than anyone else to start flaming like that (ahem, worthless master?)... By the way, I didn't say how to get rid of, but how to control what pops up in your face (which can be used to make it more functional). But hey, who am I to argue with Mr. Ghoti?!
| Quote |
The getting started page is a major necessity for anyone who is just starting with DSL, unlike the so-called help that Windows presents. Getting Started tells you some of the fundamentals of using DSL, so you don't have to do things like tear your hair out when you lose everything you thought you had saved. If you spent any time in these forums you might notice the multitudes of duplicate posts from people asking things that were answered on that page. those numbers would sure increase if it were as easy as clicking a button to get rid of something that is there to help you. |
Fundamentals, hmm... Last I checked help files accomplished that (even help forums are supposed to accomplish that) but hey, your the great guru Mr. Ghoti... Who could EVER disagree with you?
| Quote |
| If you spent any time in these forums you might notice the multitudes of duplicate posts from people asking things that were answered on that page |
| Quote |
| And once again, I don't believe anyone in DSL development has ever said anything about wanting to cater to Windows users. |
In case you haven't noticed, the vast majority of posts on this forum are from former Windows users! Where then, would (a large chunk) of the DSL user base come from? I'm willing to bet that 95% of all DSL users have used Windows before...
But hey, you're the almighty all-seeing master milkshaw ghoti. The one who knows what's inside of the heads of every DSL user, everywhere...
After all, you're the root, the super-(local)user, the master.
| Quote |
| The useful master delivers his teachings without making a fuss. While the worthless master delvers his teachings, while trying to make his student feel worthless. |
Posted by mikshaw on Feb. 19 2006,01:04
When did I flame? The topic of this thread was about the best method to remove the browser window, not about controlling it. You're the only one here doing the flaming, and it is you who is being rude, throwing insults and abuse at people you don't even know. Feel free to call me names, if you like...you only make yourself look like a troll.There was no negativity in my post, and no abuse. I apologize if what I said sounded like harsh criticism, but i was just suprised at what appeared to be a very complicated solution to a simple issue...i understand now that you were explaining a way to take advantage of an existing feature.
I am well aware that most people here are former Windows users...that's to be expected, since Windows has been the most widely-used desktop system for years. My statement was to point out that DSL is a Linux system...it's not intended to be a transitional step between Windows and Linux. The tiny size of it pretty much dictates that it isn't going to be user-friendly in the click-to-do-everything sense of the word, so users will either need to already know some basics of Linux or else do some research. Sometimes people seem to think that the Windows way of doing things is the *right* way, and Windows-like features should be included in DSL....that's just not the way it is.
As far as help files go, there is as you said these forums, and there is also the wiki. However, not everyone who has DSL has direct access to the internet for whatever reason, so new users need something there to show them the unique parts of DSL that will allow them to get started with it. DSL is a revolutionary way to use an OS, and there are several things that make it very different from a typical Linux system.
Posted by cbagger01 on Feb. 19 2006,04:50
[quote=Guest,Feb. 18 2006,16:17][/quote]| Quote |
| That kind of high-handed behavior will simply hold desktop linux off the desktops longer. After all, users DO need support. |
Who here ever said that DSL is supposed to be a user-friendly MSWindows-replacement "Desktop Linux"? I for one am happy to leave the spoon-fed Windows-replacement "Desktop Linux" job to someone like Linspire or Xandros. They can have 'em. In case you haven't noticed, no one here gets paid any real money to develop or support this distro, so I think that your assumption about "popularity" here being the ultimate measure of success is mistaken.
Anyways, the whole point of this thread was to make sure that the user GETS the support that they need. If they don't READ the getting started, then it means that the people HERE at the forums need to spend time and energy reading and answering the same questions again and again. This does not help other people get the support. Why? Because if some of the better helpers here need to wade through 3 pages of repeated help requests every day, it means less time spent answering the truely new questions or less time spent learning new things about the distro itself.
[Quote for incorrect advice on how to remove the popup deleted]
| Quote |
| ......... As for the folks who started this topic, shame on you for displaying your rude opinions to newcomers like that. |
The folks who started this topic have better things to do with their time than answer the same questions over and over. Only a person who does not understand the meaning of the word "rude" would call this behavior to be rude.
Now if the folks commonly answered such requests with something like:
RTFM you lazy jerk!
that WOULD be rude, although not completely unwarranted.
And my experiences here tell me that these "folk" usually DON'T reply this way.
Even when they are baited into an unsolicited argument by someone who thinks that they are a hero for protecting the poor ex-Windows users of the world from them rude helpful linux gurus.
Posted by Onikage on Feb. 19 2006,08:05
Wow, another great guru arrives to shame me for pointing out that help files save time, and don't leap in your face...I simply must be flogged for my audacity
As for my 'rudeness' since when does pointing out remarks such as:
| Quote |
| It also adds to the SSF (Smug Satisfaction Factor) for people who can now reply to the "help" posters with: Did you actually READ the thing before asking here? |
... I'm such a 'troll' for making remarks about such blatant statements like 'smug satisfaction factor'... How could I even think that such a statement could be rude?! That Onikage, such a bastard!
#######Read your own words Carpet Bagger######
To MS:
There was no name calling on my part... The word Ghoti is actually pronounced 'fish', and is a common topic in college communications courses... And that is what your avatar is, isn't it?.. A fish?
Now back to carpet bagger...
| Quote |
| In case you haven't noticed, no one here gets paid any real money to develop or support this distro, so I think that your assumption about "popularity" here being the ultimate measure of success is mistaken. |
Yet again another almighty 'guru' has shown me the light! Pointing out words that I never even thought when I posted! This one must be so omniscient that I, was not aware of even my own thoughts!..
CB, take some time to READ before jumping to conclusions... I, actually took the time to read yours several times before posting... Or perhaps I am deluded and it took your almighty insight to show me the light!
| Quote |
| [Quote for incorrect advice on how to remove the popup deleted] |
Once again, READ! I offered an alternative to those who actually have better things to do that spend a week trying to figure out how to tweak a file. For the linux newcomers, navigating directories and renaming/replacing a file is far easier than modifying files... Especially, when they probably haven't even seen so much as a batch file...
But hey, you know more than I do, oh wise carpet bagger...
| Quote |
| The folks who started this topic have better things to do with their time than answer the same questions over and over. Only a person who does not understand the meaning of the word "rude" would call this behavior to be rude. |
Hmm... Repeated questions by users. Sounds like the way things are in IT to me. I mean why start a 'help' forum if that is not what it is intended to be?... And yes that kind of standoffish behavior IS rude, CB... So I will reiterate... Read your own posts... But then what do I know? After all I'm not an almighty guru like you are.
| Quote |
| Even when they are baited into an unsolicited argument by someone who thinks that they are a hero for protecting the poor ex-Windows users of the world from them rude helpful linux gurus. |
You baited yourself when you started a post that pokes fun at newcomers... As for me, I am not pretending to be a champion for others... I didn't start a help forum that doesn't offer help freely... Hmm, free. Isn't that what Open Source is supposed to be all about? A free community where everyone helps each other to have reliable royalty-free software?...
Gee, I guess I've been so wrong for so long. How could I even dare to question the almighty, self-righteous Gods of the DSL world?...
Maybe, I did it because I haven't lost sight of the bigger picture!
| Quote |
| The useful master shares his teachings freely. Whereas the worthless master shares his teachings while making his student feel worthless. |
Posted by pr0f3550r on Feb. 19 2006,15:08
Don't feed the troll!
Posted by cbagger01 on Feb. 19 2006,21:24
I know I shouldn't do this, but I'm still having fun so here goes...Smug Satistfaction Factor is what is known as HUMOR. It is an attempt to diffuse the frustration that some people feel here when they feel like they have to answer the same question for the 50th time. And by the way, "50th time" is NOT hyperbole. Some of these questions have REALLY been answered that often.
If you find my attempts at HUMOR to be "rude" even though the post was directed at the DEVELOPERS and not directly at a specific newbie, then yet again I am at a loss to understand what your interpretation of "rude" is supposed to be.
Let my try to make you understand once again, even though I know in advance that this will be a futile effort:
Insulting a specific person directly without justification = Rude
Making humorous remarks to express solidarity with other people who are sometimes frustrated by the inability of some unmentioned new users to help themselves = Not Rude
| Quote |
| Hmm... Repeated questions by users. Sounds like the way things are in IT to me. I mean why start a 'help' forum if that is not what it is intended to be?... And yes that kind of standoffish behavior IS rude, CB... So I will reiterate... Read your own posts... But then what do I know? After all I'm not an almighty guru like you are. |
Read the forum name listed above. It's called "DSL Ideas and Suggestions". It is NOT a help forum. The post was directed at the developers of the distro. Why you can't get this through your skull is beyond me. As for the state of IT help desks, I am sure that if you asked most help desk staff about their frustrations with these questions, they would agree with my sentiment. And almost nobody that participated in this hypothetical discussion would consider the expressions of agreement to be considered "rude".
| Quote |
| You baited yourself when you started a post that pokes fun at newcomers... As for me, I am not pretending to be a champion for others... I didn't start a help forum that doesn't offer help freely... Hmm, free. Isn't that what Open Source is supposed to be all about? A free community where everyone helps each other to have reliable royalty-free software? |
I'm sorry, I guessed I missed the part where I said "Please argue with me and the intended receipients of the suggested functionality change to the getting started popup and call me rude". If I REALLY wanted to bait someone else into an argument, you and everyone else will know about it. For example, try reading up on the whole 60Hz refresh rate issue if you need clarification on what constitutes "baiting" on my part.
As for the "Open Source Movement" line, I always get a kick out of the people who expect others to provide them (out of the goodness of their hearts) with prompt service, responsive functionality changes for new releases, courteous responses and the like and get pissed off when somebody doesn't help them out within an hour or two of posting. They always play the "Open Source Community" card, just like you are doing now.
News Flash:
"Open Source" is not a movement like the Civil Rights Movement or the Peace Movement. It is merely a philosophy about how programming development should be done.
Depending on the terms of your software license, you can write "Open Source" software from scratch that is NOT free or even not require distributing the source code to anyone besides the people who purchased your software. You can charge people for the software and even restrict how they can use the source code or even the software itself. Even the VERY open GPL does not require you to distribute the source code unless you decide to distribute the compiled binary to other parties outside of your own team or organization.
The truth is that Open Source software development has inspired people to create a community to provide help and improvements. And this is a good thing.
But it is not a "requirement" of Open Source software projects any more than a newspaper owner who believes in "Freedom of the press" is required to publish any village idiot's opinions on the front page for no charge.
Posted by green on Feb. 20 2006,02:32
I don't mind feeding the troll.Onikage, stick with windows,.... is suits your mentality.
....Ok, now say more mean and nasty things.....
Posted by Onikage on Feb. 20 2006,23:18
Three gleeful gurus here to chastise me yet again for having an opinion... I guess only the guru's are allowed to express an opinion.Green:
| Quote |
| I don't mind feeding the troll. Onikage, stick with windows,.... is suits your mentality. ....Ok, now say more mean and nasty things..... |
When did I state anything nasty?! You are yet another to point out things I have not said... I guess all guru's here must be able to speak for me... As stated before... read.
CB:
| Quote |
| Smug Satistfaction Factor is what is known as HUMOR. It is an attempt to diffuse the frustration that some people feel here when they feel like they have to answer the same question for the 50th time. And by the way, "50th time" is NOT hyperbole. Some of these questions have REALLY been answered that often. If you find my attempts at HUMOR to be "rude" even though the post was directed at the DEVELOPERS and not directly at a specific newbie, then yet again I am at a loss to understand what your interpretation of "rude" is supposed to be. |
also:
| Quote |
| Insulting a specific person directly without justification = Rude Making humorous remarks to express solidarity with other people who are sometimes frustrated by the inability of some unmentioned new users to help themselves = Not Rude |
A guru that admits to not being omniscient... Honesty! I like that! I shall share with you now...
Per < http://www.dictionary.com >
| Quote |
rude... adj. Lacking the graces and refinement of civilized life; uncouth. also, Anything that manipulates a shared resource without regard for its other users in such a way as to cause a (non-fatal) problem. |
A forum (unlike the topic title: DSL Ideas and Suggestions) IS a shared resource which anyone (newcomers included) have access to... This 'solidarity' topic you started should have been kepr private... Email works.
| Quote |
| As for the state of IT help desks, I am sure that if you asked most help desk staff about their frustrations with these questions, they would agree with my sentiment. And almost nobody that participated in this hypothetical discussion would consider the expressions of agreement to be considered "rude". |
That may be; but none of those staff members would share their 'sentiments' with someone that they're helping. For if they did, they wouldn't last long at what they do (even if it's as a unpaid forum).
| Quote |
| As for the "Open Source Movement" line, I always get a kick out of the people who expect others to provide them (out of the goodness of their hearts) with prompt service, responsive functionality changes for new releases, courteous responses and the like and get pissed off when somebody doesn't help them out within an hour or two of posting. They always play the "Open Source Community" card, just like you are doing now. |
Do you not know how to read carpet bagger? I never said anything about a 'movement'. I stated about freedeom. I also never said anything about speedy responses... The guru yet again tries to speak for me... If you would take the time to read anything that I've posted, you would not veer from the subject by trying to attack things I have not inserted into my posts... Yet I applaud you for your attempt to avoid the direct dispute
| Quote |
| News Flash: "Open Source" is not a movement like the Civil Rights Movement or the Peace Movement. It is merely a philosophy about how programming development should be done. Depending on the terms of your software license, you can write "Open Source" software from scratch that is NOT free or even not require distributing the source code to anyone besides the people who purchased your software. You can charge people for the software and even restrict how they can use the source code or even the software itself. Even the VERY open GPL does not require you to distribute the source code unless you decide to distribute the compiled binary to other parties outside of your own team or organization. The truth is that Open Source software development has inspired people to create a community to provide help and improvements. And this is a good thing. But it is not a "requirement" of Open Source software projects any more than a newspaper owner who believes in "Freedom of the press" is required to publish any village idiot's opinions on the front page for no charge. |
Good speech! I think old long gone, Honest Abe would be jealous. I'm touched that you've admitted that this forum (which a forum is an online community) was developed to provide "help" and improvements!
Yet, the inserts about software licensing and there being no requirement to have communities (forums) is simply bunk to avoid the main dispute here. This is still about rudeness that does not belong on a shared resource such as this forum... Yet I did appreciate the quip about publishing village idiot's opinions... Please oh great guru Carpet bagger, flog me some more with your rapier wit! For each time you do, you are simply proving my point all that much more.
| Quote |
| The useful master shares his teachings freely. Whereas the worthless master shares his teachings while making his student feel worthless. |
Posted by mikshaw on Feb. 21 2006,01:02
Someone kill this thread, please. It's going nowhere.
Posted by lovdsl on Feb. 21 2006,03:28
I think this is an important thread..I had never used linux until I was given the dsl cd by a friend and loaded it on an old machine collecting dust....I read the get started file but it did not answer all the many questions a newbie has..the forum has been helpful although I can still not get the chess board engine to work...II would like to see the dillo startpage remove details at the bottom of the get started page...as now that I have it installed and functioning it is anoying to distraction and makes me want to just turn off the machine...if I could get dillo to pop up with the startpage I would be happy...by startpage I mean when I go to options and put in the url of choice in the startpage box.l.nothing happens...I finally followed the path and deleted the getting started file and now dillo pops up with an error message and I just laugh...just add instructions at the bottom of the getstarted page on next release...for solving this issue. or forget it and see endless questions on the same.BTW I installed to hd and do not see any home/dsl/xinitrc file to modify..where did that go...
Posted by cbagger01 on Feb. 21 2006,05:39
[quote=Guest,Feb. 20 2006,18:18][/quote]Hmm, according to what is generally accepted to be the "Real" dictionary in my country, also known as Merriam-Webster's, there is no mention of rudeness as it related to a "shared resource":
< http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/rude >
But just for laughs, I visited Dictionary.com and looked up the common definition of the word "rude", and not suprisingly, the definition of the word is similar to M-W's aka: None of this "shared resource" stuff is mentioned.
But when I scroll down to the bottom of the dictionary.com page, I find the unedited listing of the words that you posted here.
Of course, they are taken completely out-of-context by you in a fruitless attempt to twist their meaning to justify your original over-reaction to my post.
At the bottom of the "rude" entry is a reference to the DICTIONARY OF COMPUTER JARGON
The author of the entry is referring to the concept of a "rude computer program", and not rudeness as it relates to human behavior.
Anyone not grasping at straws to prove their point would have easily understood the context. Here is the complete entry:
| Quote |
| rude [WPI] adj. 1. (of a program) Badly written. 2. Functionally poor, e.g., a program that is very difficult to use because of gratuitously poor (random?) design decisions. Oppose cuspy. 3. Anything that manipulates a shared resource without regard for its other users in such a way as to cause a (non-fatal) problem. Examples: programs that change tty modes without resetting them on exit, or windowing programs that keep forcing themselves to the top of the window stack. Compare all-elbows. |
Nice try.
As for the whole "Open Source Movement". Ya got me there. You never said the word "Movement":
| Quote |
| Hmm, free. Isn't that what Open Source is supposed to be all about? A free community where everyone helps each other to have reliable royalty-free software?. |
There is no mention of a "Movement" in your post, but the message of your quote is clear to me because I have heard the same song-and-dance before, many times.
I don't want to comment further because then I'd be putting words into your mouth again and you've already expressed your distaste for people that try to figure out your intent without taking the time to read your posts like they are a legal document.
Posted by mikshaw on Feb. 21 2006,05:41
/home/dsl/.xinitrc is a "hidden" file...not visible in emelfm or beaver by default. In emelfm, you can click the "H" button or press "Ctrl+h" to show it. In beaver, type "." followed by Tab in the file selector, or type the whole filename.When you start dillo from the fluxbox menu (/home/dsl/.fluxbox/menu), it will load the getting started page no matter what you do with Dillo's settings because it is started explicitly with the filename:
[exec] (Dillo patched) {dillo file:/usr/share/doc/dsl/getting_started.html}
Posted by Onikage on Feb. 21 2006,08:22
| Quote | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Hmm, according to what is generally accepted to be the "Real" dictionary in my country, also known as Merriam-Webster's, there is no mention of rudeness as it related to a "shared resource": < http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/rude[/QUOTE] > I like to see when people do research... It makes me feel good to know that a guru decide to look up something. I too look up your 'real' dictionary (which by the way the REAL dictionary is the Oxford dictionary, not the elementary school Merriam-Webster). Here's one of the definitions at your reference page...
#####also#####
Did you read your definition carpet bagger? Do you not see the words it may suggest intentional discourtesy? Your aforementioned definition...
is not mentioned at your webpage. Also making humorous remarks on an online forum (which is a shared resource, available to all eyes) regardless of whom it's addressed to implies discourtesy... Or perhaps your wondrous guru mind focused on the rough finish definition... Nice try at avoiding the direct dispute though
How do I twist the meaning carpet bagger? Is not the context I posted in, in concordance with the UNEDITED definitions I found on your page? Posting indirect remarks (no matter how you try to avoid this point) implies discourtesy... I do not grasp at straws carpet bagger, I simply point out to you the context in which your post appears. Yet, you find ways to dance around the point I have made by 'splitting hairs' and pointing out irrelevant points. What is there to gain in your approach almighty guru? Please share your 'wisdom' with this humble visitor. For I do not see, nor understand your 'gain' here.
Yes, the truth is very nice thank you.
Again the guru has such powerful insight as to see thoughts that never existed in my mind! Oh, the great Carpet Bagger has shown his almighty power again!!! You still continue to try to control my actions (like putting words in my mouth) so as to prove whatever point you feel you need to make (such as pointing out my dictionary reference without mentioning that it is in concordance with your own reference). As for trying to figure intent out... Do you try to figure out intent when reading a technical manual? Chances are, probably not. So why try to figure out intent on a technical forum, when it is much simpler just to READ and THINK about what you read from other's posts as well as your own! To lovedsl: You can also find and edit your hidden files by typing ls in a terminal shell, and then edit the file by typing vi filename... But if you aren't familiar with command-line editors like vi. Beaver is an ok choice... I personally prefer vi, but beaver will suffice... Good advice milkshaw!  Back to CB: Oh great guru carpet bagger! You are so wise and powerful! Please flog me some more with your rapier wit, so that you can help me display my point for all to see even better! You are such a great help in this matter! The paragon of the bad example Would it not just be simpler to issue a public apology to the newcomers who have already seen your rampage? I mean, I simply point out a simple flaw in a post, and you come up with arguments that are mere distractions from the main point?.. Really, what is your 'great' wisdom behind your attacks? To all who have made comments about Windows to me... Who ever said I use Windows?.. I started out on computers long before both Windows and Linux were even imagined.
also
Posted by lovdsl on Feb. 21 2006,11:08
thanks mikshaw...one comes to the realization...dsl is what it is...I can not get the chess game to work and get no response from the forum so dillo smillo.I've lost intersest.I'm going to bed..thanks for the info..good to know.
Posted by struppi on Feb. 21 2006,12:13
all those win-wimps : )dsl is my first linux too... and? i figured it all out, one step after another. sometimes i had to ask here, sometimes i just played around. what do you expect? dsl isn't a commercial product. be glad that a few guys created this nice little thing (onikacke: i'm talking about the "gurus") without getting payed for it. got it? they don't get payed and so they don't have to give support. if you want a 24/7 support-mum, buy windows. configuring dsl isn't too difficult, there are just more files to edit than in windows. if you don't try, you can't cry.
Posted by doobit on Feb. 21 2006,13:44
I've found the getting started page gives you all of the basics that you need to do exactly what it says it's for - getting started. After that DSL is such a simple, easy distribution that it didn't take long to learn just by trying things. I've been using some variation of DSL now for over a year and, while I have had my problems, I also have solved all of them with some help from people on this forum. I recall having problems with Windows at first too, and there was no forum to go to for help, but that was a long time ago.
Posted by cbagger01 on Feb. 21 2006,18:48
[quote=Guest,Feb. 21 2006,03:22][/quote]I take offense to your characterization of Merriam-Webster's Dictionary as an "elementary school" dictionary. A relative of mine once worked for M-W as a proofreader and I can assure you that they take their work VERY seriously and are highly regarded in the USA. Now if my aunt happened to be reading this forum, she might take offense with your post since it is an indirect criticism of her work and the work of her colleagues. Does this make your comment rude? Not in my world. It seems obvious to me that you were trying to make the point that Oxford was a "real" dictionary by comparison and you were not trying to offend someone. So either everyone who has ever written anything in public that might offend a person who potentially might read it is "rude" - your interpretation Or intentional discourtesy directed at someone, e.g. insults and attacks on a person, is "rude" - my interpretation Regardless, it appears that we will have to agree to disagree on the subject. I have nothing more to offer. PS: If you are waiting for me to apologize to an unspecified list of people (who refuse to read the getting started document and then post help questions that have already been answered 50 or more times) that I supposedly offended due to a humorous reference in a post to the developers of DSL, you are going to be waiting for a looong time, buddy. Posted by lovdsl on Feb. 21 2006,21:36
Dsl is very interesting..I have installed it all the possible ways now and have moved on to mydsl additions..1 click everywhere..gatta like it..the getting started page has all the inspiration for getting started right away..but after several installs it gets in the way..I think if you wanted to change it.. a means of stopping dilo at boot would help.. the help file is available from control so mention that in the instruction..it is the discretion of the designers of this small marvel naturally..although different than windows it really offers the basics in a great retro..and takes advantage of modern pocket devices..I am playing with the retro the browser is the biggest issue..dillo is the main with firefox as downloader..will try Opera which is very quick on win..this makes dillo startpage additional issue as it pops up rather than a startpage of choice..just to consider..thanks for the forum..
Posted by doobit on Feb. 21 2006,21:42
The easy way, as cbagger01 was originally trying to get at, of keeping the dillo start page from popping up, is to put a # in front of the entry where it is listed in the .xinitrc file. The "." in front of a file in Linux means that it's a hidden file. However, if you open EmelFM and click the "H" in the upper left corner, then the hidden files appear. Then you can open .xinitrc with Beaver (just double click on it and select view file. Beaver will open it automatically), and add the # to the beginning of the line. Then save and close.
Posted by mikshaw on Feb. 22 2006,03:05
I do like the idea of controlling this action through a boot option. There are several things in DSL that could easily be controlled like this with a few extra lines in the startup scripts. This could allow more control of the system when running a vanilla liveCD at least....with frugal DSL systems it can be covered by backup/restore or mydsl.
Posted by Onikage on Feb. 22 2006,08:19
I digress Cbagger01, rudeness (as I learned in college) IS a matter of the opinions of others (especially in the USA), and is a part of the widely accepted standard of manners. If I have offended you with my comment about Merriam-Webster. I offer my apology. DSL certainly is not the first Linux distribution I have used. However, DSL is certainly my favorite. I see a LOT of potential in this OS, and it disturbs me to see such a casual approach to helping others break into this OS. It is even more so when offhand comments are made that can push others away. Regardless of whether or not the development team gets paid for what they do... Does not mean that the community as a whole shouldn't help by offering support to the newcomer. In fact, doing so might eventually help put John and Roberts into a position where they can make money doing what they love... Remember, it is their hard work that has made all of this possible for everyone here.
Have you considered for even a moment that the person who asks for help (more than once) might just have some type of a learning disability, and might have read the start popup and don't quite grasp it? Frustrating as that may be to those who answer their questions, one thing should be obvious... They apparently like this OS so much that they are coming back to try to figure it out. So some of their posts might not be unwarranted after all. Also, who really knows their circumstances? Persons with disabilities don't necessarily like to broadcast it to everyone. If this really is that frustrating to people here, then why not ask for a quick forum search?.. It won't solve 100% of the repeats, but it will trim them back more My last statement in this post is; what does it really hurt to offer an apology and possibly even a statement regarding negative sounding posts? I mean really, what can it hurt? It certainly won't hurt DSL's reputation. By appearing professional DSL will continue to gain respect in areas that may be ripe to achieve a steady income through development. It certainly won't hurt yours, you'll simply look like the respectable 'guru' you deserve to be seen as. It will most certainly trim back some of the negative press the Linux community (at least this one) gets due to public remarks taken the wrong way. Take some time, and think about it... Sincerely, Onikage
Posted by mikshaw on Feb. 22 2006,14:18
...back in again, sorry....You can say that a person *might* have a learning disability, but the chance of that is likely to be much less than 1% of the time. If you'd ever done tech support before, you'd probably notice that 99.something% of the time these redundant and obvious questions are asked by the lazy and the ignorant. Get enough of that and there's no way you can be completely nice and patient...you'll at least become slightly sarcastic (as cbagger's original post). Even you cannot be pleasant all the time, as you've shown quite well...mocking and insulting while pretending to be civil.
Posted by Onikage on Feb. 22 2006,16:35
And you know this beacuse you are in possession of medical records for all 6+ Trillion people around the glode? Or even the medical records for all who visit here? also, who ever said that I don't do tech support?
from dictionary.com - based on Merriam-Webster
I do not insult, nor was I imitating (mocking) anyone here... Guru is a compliment!.. see below:
Both you and cbagger are (from what I've seen) highly regarded here on this forum... As LEADERS both of you should try to hold yourselves to higher standard as doing so only helps promote DSL and Linux overall, and NOT doing so only helps ruin DSL's reputation (which in turn hurts John and Roberts hard work)... Even if you do hold some resentment towards those who ask... If you have any respect for John and Roberts work; you wouldn't take the chance of hurting their work's reputation. Please re-read my above paragraph, because no matter how many ways you try to justify sarcastic comments. The above statement WILL ALWAYS HOLD TRUE!
Again back to an earlier post of mine... Those type of comments, whether to express solidarity or not. Simply do not belong on a public message board for the above reasons.
Would Microsoft take that attitude with a mass of potential customers? (Before you or anyone flame about bad comparisons read on). Chances are 99.9999999% no. Microsoft grosses literally Billions in revenue every year. I don't think that they got there by allowing an off-color remark stand out for public eyes to see, or even ignore users... Perhaps it may have happened on the occasion, but it doesn't happen continually. Yet on this forum, I have seen quite a few off-color remarks in addition to unanswered posts. Why is his important to DSL? Well, maybe just maybe John and Roberts would like to make money with DSL beyond selling pen-drives, CD's and ITX systems. Reputation goes a long way towards making that happen. And as I have pointed out... It is easy for the masses to ruin that by not thinking before posting. This is not about one simple thread. This is about a respected leader on this online community doing something that goes a long way to damage what this online community is all about. Touche regarding the search link... However, if I missed it and I've been lurking around this forum for quite some time now (Yes even long before I started posting here). Then does it not stand to reason that others may have missed it as well?.. Perhaps a small facelift (such as a higher contrast for that link) could make it pop out for newcomers and save you some posting. Lastly, for all who wish to pick at the 'troll' some more (which I take troll as a compliment)... Why do you still continue to prove my original point by trying to distract my topic to your own self-justifying topics or self interpretations of word definitions? All you're really accomplishing is proving my comments about rude behavior even more so... Is trying to make me look like I don't know what I'm talking about so important that you would be willing to continue damaging DSL's reputation?.. Perhaps then, I was right about the 'holier-than-thou, almighty guru' mentality all along... If so, then keep on. So that my words will stand as an example of what a Linux forum should be
Posted by mikshaw on Feb. 22 2006,17:58
We are not leaders. We are users who like to share ideas and knowledge. That's it. I hold no resentment...i get annoyed just like anyone else. If i resented the newbies, i wouldn't be here trying to help them. I'm not trying to make you look like you don't know what you're talking about...I just don't appreciate being insulted or preached to. When you state your ideas and beliefs, you give an opinion. When you start telling people how they should behave, you're stepping over the line. I'm done with this thread. Posted by cbagger01 on Feb. 22 2006,18:12
If my last post was unclear:I'm done with this thread too. Posted by Onikage on Feb. 22 2006,19:29
The guru's came, they shouted, and then they ran away.Well Carpet Bagger and Milkshaw Ghoti, whether you wish to admit it or not. Your 'indifference' really shows your level of caring and may be indicative of an even greater level of emotional ineptitude... Moreover, it proves my point that you were attacking all along. Why else would you fire off your suppositions and then try to run from the dispute? Neither of you had to say anything about my initial post here, yet you did thus expressing your contempt.
The truth hurts doesn't it MG? Everything's ok so long as the guru's are the ones who have something to say, but heaven help those who are not of that 'elite' click. For they will be verbally flogged in text, as if there's really a REAL reason to do so. I feel sorry for the guest that actually flies an insult... What do you do with them?.. Wait, I'll pretend I'm inside your head now... You simply accept them into your click, happy to have yet another to help alienate those who aren't of your group. Moreover, do you really think that you are inside of my head? If not you certainly state as if you do. Why else do you say that you know what I mean, when you, yourself have presented misinterpretations of the meanings of words. Yet when I challenge 'your' definitions (with accurate definitions), you shift the context yet again in order to avoid the topic.
You're the one who keeps trying to justify himself. That quote you took off of my post PLAINLY STATES about your reputations, which reputation is dictated by how you appear to others. Rather than what you think about yourself. Wasting energy? Look how much energy you put into trying to make a simple guest look bad?.. Mainly because (as you put it) you thought I worked for Microsoft. If it's really so tiring to help others, why don't you just go back to your drawings and save the helping for those who actually care. Also, good people do not show indifference to those they 'claim' to support. Well, backpedel and try to mask what has transpired here; it makes no difference. Simply because, now it is in text for all to see just how much of actual guru's you actually are! And here I thought I was deal
Posted by Onikage on Feb. 22 2006,19:36
Continued...And here I thought I was dealing with reasonable people.! Ok, great almighty gurus. Please flog me some more so that others might see you for what you really are
Posted by socks on Feb. 22 2006,19:50
Do you like being flogged? Better boards for that than this one. They might even enjoy reading your rhetorical arguments.
Posted by marcus on Feb. 22 2006,20:12
Wow, this is one interesting thread!Never before have I seen so many people get angry over someone pointing out a possible flaw. Geez, can't anyone here take some constructive criticism? Posted by Dan_the_man on Feb. 22 2006,20:15
Socks, you know what he means, and it has nothing to do with flog enjoyment. Posted by lovdsl on Feb. 23 2006,07:21
Mikshaw..thanks for the H..man..why did I not notice that before...solved the dillo issue and the chess board also..yeha....maby it was the sleep...
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