DSL Revisted?

Forum: DSL Ideas and Suggestions
Topic: DSL Revisted?
started by: AwPhuch

Posted by AwPhuch on Oct. 06 2004,21:54

I know John and the DSL team has created DSL with the basic pholosophy of a fully functional yet minimal desktop.

My question would be since the introduction of a "do it yourself" package/module scheme why have the "base" system include games and other "non-essential" packages that use valuable space where those additions could be listed as .dsl packages...where other more "important" packages could be put in thier stead...such as

1. Wireless tools
2. Networking tools
3. More upgraded yet larger lib files
4. Better apps for (ftp, web, email)
5. IPTABLES! (It aint linux without a firewall)

Perhaps a revist to the basic philosophy of DSL is in order...if not its still a damn sweet build.

Brian
AwPhuch

Posted by AwPhuch on Oct. 06 2004,21:56

Arrrgh I hate typos

Brian
AwPhuch

Posted by SaidinUnleashed on Oct. 07 2004,00:14

in reguards to your points.

1. Done. with ndiswrapper, almost any wireless device that works with windoze works with DSL.

2. the netcardconfig script will set up just about any kind of network connection you could want, and there is the terminal-based samba for windows shares. And for the people who demand a GUI, there's the lineighborhood .dsl.

3. the libs in DSL, while not being cutting-edge, they are up to date enough for most purposes.

4. axyFTP works like a charm for people who want a GUI, but I prefer terminal based ftp anyway.
Sylpheed is GREAT. What is there to complain about there?
But the one area DSL is rather weak is the primary browser - Dillo. I HATE Dillo. I use Links and gLinks before I'll ever touch Dillo. Unless I'm on a decent speed connection, then it's firefox all the way, baby.

5. IPTABLES is a great firewall, but since DSL is meant to be run from RAM, Live-CD, or another read-only media, it's really not needed.
Just backup what you need to keep onto a usb pendrive beforehand, and if you get hacked, reboot!

But DSL should keep it's "small and light" philosophy. It's great to see the look on people's faces when you show them what it will do, and then tell them it's only 50mb small. ^_^

-J.P.
SaidinUnleashed

Posted by ke4nt1 on Oct. 07 2004,00:33

I have to jump in on this one..

I get emails from around the world from DSL users.

Many have really struggled to get a system that will even
run the base DSL .iso , much less the extensions.

Many, many folks are thankful to even have a dialup .

John and Robert have created a distro that provides the
basic needs to get yourself "up and running" from most
any situation.. And provided the user with a wealth of apps
that will run satisfactorily on most anything..
" A useable desktop " is exactly what we've got in DSL.

If "wireless" tools or "firewalls" are what you need in a distro,
the need suggests you already have connections to the internet.
Assuming this to be true, it makes sense to provide a user
with the tools to obtain and add these apps to your system.
DSL does provide..

If better browsers and email tools are what you need, then again..
DSL does provide you with the means to get it done..

But if your not "shot in the a$$ with dimes" , and are doing
your best to get yourself loaded up with the most basic of tools,
then again , DSL is again exactly what you need..

There are some apps that could be removed from the base iso,
and made into extensions.. Most of them would save little in the
way of true useable space, though.. And since we're already
pushing the limit on .iso size, any space we could find would be
better used for the masses by adding faq's and docs..

Many folks using DSL aren't into 10-20-40 MB downloads.
Gettting DSL is challenging enough..

But for those blessed enough to have a nice box, plentiful
ram and HD space, and a fast, reliable dialup or better,
then extensions are the way to go ... This serves the needs
of everyone, rather than serving only a subset of the users.

I feel that the lighter, smaller apps included with DSL are just
the ticket to grab the userbase that is "left behind" by most modern distros..
John and Robert have done a great service
by keeping it the "most" , and not "the best" when it comes
to choosing packages to be included in the base .iso .

73
ke4nt

Posted by hasty on Oct. 07 2004,06:38

"I feel that the lighter, smaller apps included with DSL are just
the ticket to grab the userbase that is "left behind" by most modern distros.. "

Couldn't agree more.

Posted by nibznik on Oct. 16 2004,14:57

the only thing that i think dsl needs it some sort of compiler
and maybe the new 2.4 kernel patch to write to NTFS volumes?

Posted by Max on Oct. 16 2004,23:43

Having the ability to write to NTFS volumes would REALLY make DSL more robust in the corporate world. Reading NTFS has been useful enough. (I love booting up DSL in front of the corp IT geeks and watch their chin drop as I bypass all their security to retrieve a user's files off the disk)

Another thing I would REALLY like to be able to do is to mount a MS windows share point. All of the data on our corp network is hosted on Windows servers. Sure, I know I can do this with the Samba terminal client, but that's a real pain and it doesn't make the files directly accessable to applications. I want to just be able to mount it, then access just like any other data resource. Can someone enlighten me, or is LinNeighborhood the only way to accomplish this???

I know you may be targeting the "left behind," but DSL could really make a dent in the corporate ranks too if the right tools were built in for people to be able to access all their data....

For what it's worth, you can dump that ABS spreadsheet app out of the ISO. I started my wife working on it just to make a simple table of all her beads. She kept complaining that the app would just "disappear." You must be doing something wrong...I told her. Then I tried, and sure enough, it was really flakey. Sometimes you'd scroll down and it would crash. Sometimes you select something off one of the menu bars and it would crash. It really just seemed quite unstable. So I installed Open Office as fast as I could before I lost her as a convert... Now THAT is a great app.

Posted by SaidinUnleashed on Oct. 17 2004,02:12

Quote

the only thing that i think dsl needs it some sort of compiler

DSL has a C compiler - tcc - works great. if you want the full gcc, you can grab it from the testing area of the Extension vault. Obviously, since it's still in testing, you shouldn't use it on a HD install, but it works great.

Quote

and maybe the new 2.4 kernel patch to write to NTFS volumes?

If it gets incorporated into Knoppix, than it could be possible to see it in a future version of DSL, though I wouldn't expect to see it before 0.12 or so

Quote

For what it's worth, you can dump that ABS spreadsheet app out of the ISO.

So i'm not the only one who has issues with the stability of ABS. :/ Unfortunately, I haven't had much success finding a suitable replacement. Space restrictions, ya know. If you find something that fits DSL's profile as a replacement, suggest it!

-J.P.
SaidinUnleashed

Posted by clivesay on Oct. 17 2004,02:18

Quote

J.P. - Have yuo given Siag Office a shot? It is a pretty cool light suite of office apps.

Chris

Posted by SaidinUnleashed on Oct. 17 2004,02:31

Chris - I meant to put into DSL itself, Siag is a little big for a 50mb cd ;)

I have tried Siag, but only once. Ted does everything I need as far as office apps go.

Might try it again for the spreadsheet.

-J.P.
SaidinUnleashed

Posted by cbagger01 on Oct. 17 2004,02:43

Siag is actually a very light office suite:

< ftp://ibiblio.org/pub....ice.dsl >

and it is only 4 MB without doing some needed stripping (eliminate the text editor, file manager and animator).

So if desired, you could use it to replace both ABS & TED with Siag spreadsheet and Pathetic Writer word processor.

It also has the side benefit of OK (not great) MS Excel and Word compatibility and runs great on older computers.

The downside is that it will still most likely take up more disk space than TED + ABS so it would result in other applications being removed from the distro.

Which is why you should download and try out the extension instead of wait for it to be included into the base distro.

It is also possible that a newer version of ABS has improved stability. Of course it would also probably be a large program size.

Posted by SaidinUnleashed on Oct. 17 2004,02:53

hmm, i might have to try it.

Is the siag filemanager functional enough to replace emelfm? I love emelfm, so don't think I'm actively looking to replace it.

and the animater could replace xpaint.

but I'm reluctant to even think about dumping Ted. Best. Light-weight wordprocessor. Evar.

-J.P.
SaidinUnleashed

Posted by clivesay on Oct. 17 2004,03:41

the cool thing about pwriter and the spreadsheet is that you can save as pdf!

Chris

Posted by hasty on Oct. 17 2004,07:25

I'm with Chris on this.

Siag is a great little app.
OO was just too big & slow on my geriatric machine (32mb ram)

Anything to get rid of that awful Ted

Posted by ico2 on Oct. 17 2004,17:10

downloading the dsl file to see if i can strip it down a bit.

Posted by ico2 on Oct. 17 2004,18:35

ok, i have come to the conclusion that siag cannot be cut down enough to make it go in dsl, it relies on libmowitz and libXawM, which combined are nearly 7mb, that is way to bloated to work.

Posted by somerville32@hotmail.com on Oct. 18 2004,00:58

If we do take off those programs that don't work or will be replaced by this new office app, how much space do we gain? Is it enough to add these new office aplications?

Posted by cbagger01 on Oct. 18 2004,03:09

ico2,

The important value is the compressed file size: around 4MB.

The best comparison is to compare the compressed size of a slimmed down Siag to the compressed size of ABS + TED.

However, I think that ultimately the answer will be the same and Siag will take up too much space compared to the other apps.

Posted by ico2 on Oct. 18 2004,15:37

aaaaaaaaahh, forgot to compress.

Posted by ico2 on Oct. 18 2004,18:32

ok, no need to cut down, can get the spreadsheet prog seperately.
pw will have to wait though, making the dsl file (can possibly be added to the iso l8r) in just a moment.
the debs for the spreadsheet alone are 1.9mb

Posted by somerville32@hotmail.com on Oct. 18 2004,22:16

The distro is already over 50mb's so I guess we really can't add much. I just looked and < ftp://ibiblio.org/pub....8.2.iso > is 51mb (51425280).

*ponders if this thread is more meaningful then meaningful then orginal assumed*

~Me

Posted by Max on Oct. 19 2004,01:20

Let us know when you post dsl for the siag speadsheet so we can give it a whirl...

Thanks

Posted by somerville32@hotmail.com on Oct. 19 2004,02:12

Alrighty, We will do

~Me

Posted by cbagger01 on Oct. 19 2004,02:18

You don't need to wait on a repackaged Siag spreadsheet extension in order to try it out.

You can try out the whole Siag Office (Including spreadsheet) by dowloading and installing this link here:

< ftp://ibiblio.org/pub....ice.dsl >

Posted by ke4nt1 on Oct. 19 2004,02:41

Actually....

Kilobytes are measured as 1024 bytes per KB
Megabytes are calculated as 1024 ^2 = 1,048,576 bytes per MB

so..........

51,425,280 bytes total / 1,048,576 bytes per MB = 49.042969 MB's

Which is what emelfm shows the dsl-0.8.2.iso file to be > 49.04

We're still good...

A true 50MB Biz card CD should hold 52,428,800 bytes = 50.0MB

73
ke4nt

Posted by ico2 on Oct. 20 2004,13:23

having a few difficulties with making the dsl, tcl8.0 deb seems to not like installing due to a problem i have also had with a couple of others.
i have tried using unpack instead of install but it still doesn't seem to work.
i will post if i get it working.

Posted by AwPhuch on Oct. 20 2004,16:42

Quote (ico2 @ Oct. 20 2004,09:23)

DUDE! Enuff with the freekin red...sheesh

Brian
AwPhuch

Posted by Skody on Oct. 21 2004,02:53

Seeing DSL has expanded to itx system.. how about A mosix kernal option.

Skody

Posted by somerville32@hotmail.com on Oct. 21 2004,18:36

Oh Ok... Links says it is 51mb...

Thanks,

~Me

Posted by mikshaw on Oct. 22 2004,02:26

It's probably rounding up. I've noticed quite a few applications will do that when set to read sizes in mb/gb

Posted by ico2 on Oct. 22 2004,13:18

siag has some annoying dependancies i have to fix.
does siag require tcl? or was that my winmodem drivers? i'm confused!!!