Spiffy CDs

Forum: DSL Ideas and Suggestions
Topic: Spiffy CDs
started by: brotherscrim

Posted by brotherscrim on Oct. 06 2003,16:05

Would you pay more (or pay for the first time, I suppose) if you could get DSL on a biz-card CD with slick art on the disc and a plastic case to put it in? I've talked with John about this before. I love DSL, and I love the biz-card CD form factor. My only minor complaint about DSL is when I got the disc in the mail, it came wrapped in a plastic baggie with Damn small Linux written on it with a sharpie. I think DSL deserves to have shiny artwork on the disc and a plastic case to put it in. IMO, it's every bit as nifty as some of those big-time distros, and I think it deserves the same kind of "whiz-bang" artwork and such the big boys get.

So what do you guys think? Would you pay more if you got DSL on a sweet-looking disc and such?

Posted by ImNotHere on Oct. 06 2003,19:58

Yeah... better artwork would be nice but, personally I will never pay for a DSL release.. I am just that cheap

I help when I can in the messageboards but I don't really have any money right now

still in school

Posted by vocabulaic on Oct. 06 2003,21:18

I don't see what's wrong with the slip-case it sends in...

If you're talking like an extra $0.25 - MAYBE... but even then pretty artwork doesn't do much good when it's in the drive...

Posted by brotherscrim on Oct. 07 2003,00:37

Quote (vocabulaic @ Oct. 06 2003,17:18)

I don't see what's wrong with the slip-case it sends in...

If you're talking like an extra $0.25 - MAYBE... but even then pretty artwork doesn't do much good when it's in the drive...

Having bought labels, discs, and cases for biz-card CDs before, I can assure you "an extra .25 maybe" is a little low.

The cases themselves run between .20 and .50 a piece, and labels are about $20 for a pack of 96 for the glossy ones. That's another .20 the cheapest discs I saw were about .40, most often they're .50 or more. Add shipping costs, ink (which is NOT a trivial amout), and we're talking about $1+ a piece for "designer discs."

But anyway, I don't think that these would replace the standard ones - more like a "special edition" kind of thing.

Sort of like a fundraiser thing. Like Girl Scout Cookies or Lion's Club mints - you're paying more than you would because it's a worthy cause, and you get a little something special to encourage you to open your pocketbook.

See, I'm not a programmer (well, not a good programmer anyway) and I'm a Linux noob. Since I can't contribute to Linux by answering questions and/or contributing to an OSS project, I show my support by spreading the word and (*gasp*) paying for the distros I use.

So far, I've bought DSL, Mandrake, Libranet, and RH. With the exception of RH, I've payed for these distros because I use them - and because they (IMNHO) charge a fair price for the work they do.

In the case of Libranet and DSL especially, I'm paying because my giving up some bucks keeps a small group of programmers interested in cranking out distos, damn fine ones at that. Sure, they MIGHT do it even if they don't get any money for their efforts, but they're more likely to give up some of their valuable time and make these distros if they do get a little cash for doing it.

[edit]

Oh, another way I support DSL? I wrote a review and an interview with John and got it put up on distrowatch. Not trying to brag here - but I am proud of it. Someone from Panama sent me an email and said he was using it based on my article. That's just what I was hoping for!

[/edit]

Posted by vocabulaic on Oct. 07 2003,01:02

I never said $0.25 was a realistic price...

Sad to say, but most linux people are cheap (as I am). Getting the standard $5 is more than enough... I mean, after all, if they want more $$, they can get into stuff that isn't open...

Posted by John on Oct. 07 2003,04:20

Hi BrotherScrim!

Since the time when you ordered, I have improved the CD a little, the 80 mm rounds and the full size come in jewel case and the business card ones come in a vinyl sleeve (when BS got his it came in a zip-lock bag

). The business card CDs are a bit higher quality too. They are still labeled with a sharpy though.

I burn them one at a time from my hard drive too...

If people want a fancy CD I am willing to offer them -- heck, I'd like to have one.

One thing though, is I come with new releases often, do you think that would be a disincentive to buying one?

>Like Girl Scout Cookies
That's sort of how I see it too, making DSL is a hobby and I am really only standing on the shoulders of others in making it -- but the CD sales (and the trickle of donations) help support my hobby of improving DSL.

>Sad to say, but most Linux people are cheap.
Actually, I don't think that's true. A lot of Linux users are not in a position to be paying for software, like folks from developing nations or students. Yet, I've been surprised by the amount of orders and donations that have come in. I wasn't expecting it.

Posted by waab on Oct. 07 2003,06:45

I must say that personaly haven't paid for any distro, and I guess it will take some time before I can aford it. Because as a student 8.5$ is pretty much (I am living in Europa), so personally I think it is totally pointless to produce a expensive good looking cd.

Posted by brotherscrim on Oct. 07 2003,11:36

Quote (John @ Oct. 07 2003,00:20)

). The business card CDs are a bit higher quality too. They are still labeled with a sharpy though.

At first I thought that there might not be much interest in a spiffy disc because you're cranking out a new .iso every week.

But again, buying the disc is more for people making a donation: If you're the person who is thinking about clicking the "donation" link on the page, why not buy a slick disc? And it's not like the discs are useless. Heck, even if you don't want it anymore, you could pass the disc on.

It's a shame they don't make biz-card CDRWs - and not just for DSL, either. They're smaller than a floppy, they hold 50MB, and any computer that has a CD-ROM can read them.

Oh, and John: I'll make you a couple neat looking ones that are blank soon. The missus is sick and she's the artist, so I don't feel like pushing her to do some artwork.

Posted by Daniele on Oct. 07 2003,12:17

Quote (brotherscrim @ Oct. 07 2003,07:36)

But again, buying the disc is more for people making a donation: If you're the person who is thinking about clicking the "donation" link on the page, why not buy a slick disc? And it's not like the discs are useless. Heck, even if you don't want it anymore, you could pass the disc on.

I absolutely support the idea. It makes the donation a lot more attractive, LOL

I don't like that kind of attitude: 'I can't or I don't want to spend money for linux', not even if you are a student.
I was a student myself and I know a lot of students who spend much more than they can afford at the pub.
Linux costs time, work and money. It is free as 'freedom', not free as 'free beer'

Posted by davide on Oct. 07 2003,13:13

hey.. let's take it easy, guys!
I mean...if you don't want to pay..nobody will come to your home and point a gun to your head!
if you are willing to..well you may be more satisfied with a fancy business card. or you may not.
but saying that this is "pointless" sounds really exagerated to me.
Personally I'm waiting for my card to arrive and when it happens, I'll be satisfied anyway. But I DO like fancy cds. So I thinks it's a good idea.
Personally I don't think that a person that can afford a 5 dollars cd cannot affort a 5,5 dollar cd; or a 6 bucks one.
come on!

I also agree with daniele on the "to beer or not to beer" point. every persons that can plug a pc into a phone line and surf the net is probably rich enought to buy a beer, or a funny t-shirt, or a nice pair of sunglasses. The choice of where you spend your (little or much) money depends on you. just that.

to john: frequent realeases aren't a problem, in my opinion, as long as you garantee that you burn the latest. But if there's a artwork on the business card or cd, then this artwork should not contain the release number. It would be very expensive to print few copies. bulk orders are cheaper.
I don't now if I explained my point.

Posted by Daniele on Oct. 07 2003,19:13

Quote (davide @ Oct. 07 2003,09:13)

every persons that can plug a pc into a phone line and surf the net is probably rich enought to buy a beer, or a funny t-shirt, or a nice pair of sunglasses. The choice of where you spend your (little or much) money depends on you. just that.

Exactly.

DSL is not only very nice, but it also fills a real gap.
We have read in how many ways it can be used: just because you like it, for older hardware, as a thin client...

Therefore we must resist the trend of some minor linux distros: they are only a temporary fashion.

Of course, if we give John the needed financial support, we motivate him to keep going.

Posted by waab on Oct. 08 2003,07:39

Uhh my bad english a make people upset, what I wanted to say is this (and GOD I hope I do this better this time):

1, For the moment I have no intresst in paying for a nice CD, because of lake in econmy and that I am just using DSL as a learning tool.
2, I think I would pay for it when my econimc is far better and number 1.0 is realesed (Sp?)
3, Personally I say: save the good looking style untill 1.0 it would be something to celibrate

Posted by NoWop on Oct. 08 2003,18:20

Just throwing my two cents worth here... but isn't Linux about choice?
So what's wrong with offering both?
An affordable 'Sharpie' edition and for a little bit more an 'Elegant' edition...
I would purchase the deluxe edition as gifts for my geeky friends...

Posted by tunesnake on Oct. 08 2003,19:48

[B]EXCUSE ME!
I am a new member, if you really want to get sellable CD's i would suggest a professional Run! I am a CD manufacturer, and if you had a really nice retail package i do believe that you could do Quite Well for moving DSL! Also you could partner with Router/Motherboard companies to include it free as a promotion! Think about this for a moment, CD's Retail Ready, Beautifull FULL COLOR printing on the CD, and a Very Nice looking Tri-Folded CD case Color Printed, Shrink Wrapped and Bar Coded for aroun $4.50 - 7.00 US (retail them around 9.99 and up). You can contact me via email if you have any more questions.

-Tunesnake

PS
Written 5 minutes after installing DSL on laptop. Damn i Love DSL

Posted by brotherscrim on Oct. 08 2003,20:01

whoa! getting a bit outside the scope of what we're talking about here.

I'm not John, but all the conversations I've ever had with him suggest that he's not the type to sell anything that ends the price in .99.

Also, consider that by the time the kind of disc and package you're talking about is ready to ship, the next version is most likely going to be out. John has been averaging a new release a week for a couple months now.

Nevermind the fact that product placement and bundling and such requires a business, and that's not what John's been running. He's a hacker; he's making a neat little distro in his spare time and we love him for it.

Hey, I'd love to see those little CDs in a rack in my local computer store, but I just don't think that's gonna happen any time soon, if ever.

Posted by NoWop on Oct. 08 2003,20:38

Right...whoa dude!
The moment DSL will go 'BIG' it will be its demise...
And if John can't make the fancy cd available, too bad... enjoy it for what it is.
:cool:

Posted by Daniele on Oct. 08 2003,21:05

Quote (tunesnake @ Oct. 08 2003,15:48)

Personally I don't find the idea bad at all, but it is up to john to decide.

Posted by alien2k on Oct. 08 2003,23:27

Quote (brotherscrim @ Oct. 07 2003,07:36)

It's a shame they don't make biz-card CDRWs - and not just for DSL, either. They're smaller than a floppy, they hold 50MB, and any computer that has a CD-ROM can read them.

I wouldn't mind paying a tenner for an 8cm cdrw, with nice artwork on it and one of those cute little thin jewel cases. that way I could remaster to my hearts content and still know which cd is the one with dsl on!

Sam

Posted by tunesnake on Oct. 09 2003,04:02

Well Woa! may be right if that is not the goal, but you could just buy a Small Full Color Laser Printer that you can print individualy and then ship them on a need to ship bases in a clear slip in protector, just make the graphic really nice! I can hook you up with a small desktop Laser Full Color Printer (around 130.00) the refills around 18. per color X4. You get around 800 disks per color i believe. I will find a brochure on the unit tosend ...........

-Tunesnake

Posted by brotherscrim on Oct. 09 2003,16:16

Alright, there seems to be a fair amount of interest here. This is what I'm gonna do. I'll make a dozen blank CDs with a nice looking label and plastic cases for the discs and send them to John, free of charge. He can charge whatever he likes for them, as a "promo" or "deluxe" disc or whatever as a fundraiser. If they sell out really fast or something, I'll send John some more, but after the first dozen, I'll need to charge for them - just enough to cover my costs so I can buy more later, should it come to that (I currently have almost 100 of the damn things).

These discs will be the business card CD format, and I've already found the artwork I want to use. It's a really neat old picture of a circuit board. I intend to change the text on the chips so it looks like "Damn Small Linux" was printed on them instead of whatever was there to begin with. The image is a big one, and the one image will provide the background for a whole page of CD labels. That means that there will be 8 slightly different backgrounds. It makes my job easier, and it adds a little incentive to buying another disc later on.

If John or somebody else here decides to do something with < this idea >, then I might do something similar with 80mm CDRWs.

I'll keep you guys posted on how it's going. If I get some free time tonight, I can probably get these discs in the mail to John by next week.

Posted by domtar on Oct. 17 2003,22:40

the fancy cd idea is cool, but maybe since they cost more it should only happen every so often. like when dsl gets to round numbers. offer nifty cd's at version 0.5 and 0.6, but not 0.4.19 and what not.

Posted by randy on Oct. 18 2003,04:07

I'd buy a nice graphical cd, but not if there is a new version every week like there has been, because I would be buying new CDs all of the time.

Posted by alien2k on Oct. 18 2003,23:42

I'd rather have an 80mm CD-RW than a business card sized CD-R, for that very reason. That way, whenever a new ISO comes out, I could just download it and burn it. I am very tempted to get 0.5 on CD-R, because although DSl is much smaller than many other distros, it still takes a good few hours to download over dial-up. I'd much rather have a nice looking CD as well, so would be prepared to pay extra. However, a few weeks later when 0.5.1 comes out with that must-have new feature, that fancy CD-R will be useless for it. Plus having it on CD-RW means I can remaster easily, and still have my fancy disc to run it from!

Please can someone make up some fancy 80mm CD-RWs with nice graphics? I really think you'd get more people buying CDs if you advertise the fact that when a new release comes out you just download it and write over, even if the CDs cost more.

Sam

Posted by Xirer on May 20 2004,01:48

Memorex sells 50mb business card disks, and also sheets of blank labels for home printers. The best way to get cool graphics on to a disk may just be to have artwork available for download from this website and then people could print their own. Of course it would also be easy to do the whole process in-house for a small spiff fee to cover the label and application of it.

Paper labels may not be as nice as printed disks, but every time there is a new release all you have to do is hop in to gimp and update the version number.

Last bit of information here: Business card CD-R labels are shaped like the disks so you can't just apply them like regular ROUND CD-R labels. You have to make sure that the label goes on straight. This level of complication plus the cost of the craptastic CD-Stomper for a person who does not have one can make things expensive, for a product that is free off the net. Basically, someone could buy a pack of 25 ink-jet label sheets and then turn around and sell 50 half-sheets of labels as an extra whenever someone purchases a disk. Conversely, that same 'label-baron' could apply them himself as a service before sending out filled orders.

That way each person isn't forced to buy a pack of 100 labels as well as an application tool just to make 1 or 2 disks.

Final final words: If the label is too difficult to apply to the CD successfully (aligned) you could always switch to slapping labels on the vinyl sleeves, which don't need to be balanced for 600rpm rides inside the inside the CD-ROM.

Apology: I have a tendency to ramble if I am not careful, and this time I am not going back to make sure this thing is a pleasant read, sorry guys.

If this option is worth exploring I already have all the materials including disks, vinyl sleeves, official Memorex labels, and a salvaged ink-jet printer. I had planned to actually use these for business cards during my quest for a job, but I managed to find one more quickly than I had expected. Current inventory is something like 45 60mm CD-R Blanks /w vinyl sleeves, and 50-100 labels.

If someone wants to cook up the art, I can see about putting it to disk.

Posted by SaidinUnleashed on May 20 2004,02:25

NOO!!!

DSL is a minimalist distro!! it should stay close to its roots!!!!

LONG LIVE THE SHARPIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111!!!oneoneone!!!1!

actually, i like downloading DSL and burning it myself. its faster.

Posted by clivesay on May 20 2004,12:08

I'm a sharpie kinda guy also but if you're interested in CD's I stumbled on this deal at the Neato site when I was looking for some information for work. Might check it out. It looks like it is a pretty good deal.

Chris

< Neato >

Posted by nugget on May 20 2004,15:16

I would like it just as soon As I get a job. I like dsl, and Willing to spend more money to support a cause. But first I need to get money myself...

Posted by PhrozenFear on May 28 2004,05:03

As soon as I manage to acquire a job that allows me a credit card, I'll gladly support DSL. My only problem is the fact that the biz-CD's are CD-R not CD-RW. If they were RW, then I'd buy one in a heartbeat, so that you could always keep up with the tide of things.

Speaking of that, I'll have to check into something here in town - they have this uncanny ability to slice and dice CD's into fancy shapes... I wonder if they could chop an RW down to pocket-CD or biz-CD size so that you could use them like that...

I'll get back to you guys on that.

Posted by AwPhuch on June 04 2004,16:57

I must say that this is a very intersting thread...

DSL should stay minimalist, but a nice cd would be good.

However I must say that the weekly release is driving me nuts, there should be a scheduled release of DSL, since dsl is based off knoppix, and knoppix is based off debian and debian has 3 classes of releases (stable, testing, and un-stable)

1. stable release can be scheduled for a biquarterly or semi-annually release (for those that want a true producton version of DSL instead of constantly trying to keep up with the *.*.1 incriment releases)

2. testing release which scheduled for monthly release (for those who want the latest and greatest and newest options...also helps with troubleshooting and testing)

Wouldnt be hard to implement and would take the load off of not only the mirrors but off the DSL team as well..this way he just punches out upgrades montly instead of weekly and having to update the website, keep up with new problems in the forums and whatnot...gives them a better chance to develop, test, and deploy much more smoothly.

just my $0.02

Brian
AwPhuch

Oh and [shameless plug on]]< SmoothWall Express Firewall >[/shameless plug off]

Posted by cbagger01 on June 04 2004,18:57

DSL is supposed to be a livecd and is not managed like a full-blown distribution like Debain.

DSL and Knoppix have different goals so their release methods are different. Knoppix tries to keep up to date applications and kernel versions, while DSL tries to keep application updates to a minimum because newer versions of software almost always take up more disk space and DSL is VERY limited with disk space.

ALmost all of the DSL releases lately contian MAJOR functionality improvements that revolutionize the way that many people use the product. It makes no sense to keep these changes under wraps for a long period of time in order to adhere to a release schedule.

If you don't want to update your DSL every few weeks you are welcome to continue using the version that you already posess. Chances are that this version is stable and quite usable even though it does not contain the latest features.

For example, I always keep a copy of DSL 0.5.3.1 around because it plays nice with an older computer that uses Opera for the web browser.

Just my $0.02 Take it for what its worth.

Posted by AwPhuch on June 04 2004,20:23

Makes sence

Brian
AwPhuch

Posted by John on June 05 2004,02:17

Let me add...
This type of free style development works really well with this project, there is just a couple of us actively developing DSL and there isn't really a 'road map'.

The goal is to make the best desktop distribution possible which will fit into a 50MB compressed iso. We release a new version when we think there is a sufficient step in that direction.

Posted by PhrozenFear on June 05 2004,06:14

How do you guys decide what's good enough, and what you can add, and all of that ?

I kinda want in on this.

Posted by John on June 05 2004,21:53

>How do you guys decide what's good enough, and what you can add, and all of that ?
If we think it is worthy of people to use in place of the previous release.

>I kinda want in on this.

We aren't in a position to have it be a public decision at this time. If you have some ideas or code contributions please email me.

Posted by ke4nt1 on June 05 2004,23:51

Well John ...
Whatever your doin' ...
However your doin' it ...

Don't Stop !!
It just WORKS !

I've now got 6 computers here at home running
some type of DSL 0.7.1 ... Most of the household's day-to-day
computing needs are being handled with DamnSmallLinux.
( Email, surfing, ftp, net management, documents, entertainment, etc...)

I been following DSL with interest since version 0.4.* ...
Throughout that time, I've seen DSL grow into a distro
that builds on the USERS feedback, input, and challenges ...

Your approach of creating a small, light distro that runs on just about
anything, and is packed with useful applications from the first install,
is a tremendous asset to itself.

Compare that to other distros that give you the choice of a
"barebones" install, which usually includes the cli and some net tools.
Or, the usual install, which contains gig after gig of stuff I'd rather
not have using up my resources.

DSL has continued to grow from this solid 50meg base.
Versions 0.6 thru now 0.7.1 now give the USER the ability
to add only what their hardware can support, or what
apps they would really like to have included.in THEIR distro.

So, as to the cycle of releases and updates..
1.) I enjoy seeing solutions integrated into the distro quickly...
2.) And I look forward to each revision with anticipation ...

Keep up the fine work ...

73
ke4nt

Posted by BillH on June 06 2004,04:44

How "bout a nice spiffy cd CASE? My 50 meg CDs just have plastic sleeves and I can"t find any nice cases. (I have some 45 Mb cds with really nice little clamshell cases, but they are too small for DSL and they only fit round-ended cds, my 50s have square ends.)

Posted by Cirvin on June 25 2004,01:23

I woud buy it if it had cool artwork, purely for the novelty of a cool disk and to support the cause. The art makes it that mmuch more worthwhile. Well at least in my mind...

Super good!

Posted by tecker on June 25 2004,16:37

I would like to see a Special Edition 80mm disk that had the biggest DSL packages on it. By biggest I mean most popular (firefox, Openoffice anyone?). Sure that gets away from the whole Business card cd thing and makes it slightly larger. But i might pay $10 to $12.50 for a 80mm cramed with dsl & ci packages. Print it up nice, put it in a hard case (wont break in a backpack or breifcase that way), and you have a go anywhere office on any computer and internet connection (or if you have a floppy for files). Plus people ('hem, sysadmins at school) would know what was going in the drive. There, rattled off my $.02.

Mini 80mm cd w/extras burned on: $5.50
Label printed with schweet graphic: $ .50
Hard Case - 80mm size: $1.00
Shipping & handling: $2.00
Donation to ensure next release: $1.00
Scaring/Calming Sys Admins as unknown disk slips into CD tray: Priceless.

For everything else there are homeburnt CDs.

P.S. what scare system guys most. Sharpied Disk or Flasy Penguin Label?

Posted by chuck54 on June 27 2004,21:59

I looked into this stuff with a custom cdr firm in the states. They said 1000 pretty, printed cd's in custom made little tins would be $2000 or so. It seemed a bit steep to me! 1000 units was the minimum order btw.

Does anyone else know about this stuff? What kind of prices would you get?

Posted by tecker on June 28 2004,15:10

WOW! Thats $2 a disk.

If we pool our money we could get a bunch. Granted 1000 seems like alot (and it is, the new version would be out by the time the 100th would be sold). You could do the old KNOPPIX thing: Event goers get the new version on a disk while we wait. Mabye the 0.7.3 or 0.8 release could be on a special disk that could be bought before downloaded. :blues:

Posted by chuck54 on June 28 2004,17:56

I was thinking I would order them un-burned, and with a little white spot to write the version number on the cd. But I don't have $2000 for live cds, how ever cool they might be.

Posted by monkymind on June 30 2004,07:07

I've sent some DSL biz-card label images to John.
If and when they're put up somewhere - just use your
fav label printing prog. (Glabels under linux works well
but you have to make your own template)

Here's the collection so far
Cheers
rob

The Arty ones are here

< DSL Labels (Arty ones) >

Posted by AwPhuch on June 30 2004,13:32

Very cool....

Brian
AwPhuch

Posted by Ekylypse on July 03 2004,07:44

Okay, i'm not sure if this has yet been said but what could be done is have a small spot where it is blank on the Label and leave that to allow John to write what version number it is. Shit, I think I might start making labels and shipping them via ups in a big ass box, lol, j/k there wouldn't be that many. :-P

Posted by monkymind on July 03 2004,07:56

Use Tux's belly. (DSLo) <-put ver here ........

Cheers
rob

Posted by Ekylypse on July 03 2004,17:06

There ya go, baby Tux's belly would be a perfect spot for it, great idea rob

Posted by chuck54 on July 09 2004,18:47

I want to add one thing to this. If your going to print on cd's, PLEASE do not use stick on lables. Laptop cd drives can choke on them. Ive had it happen before.

I had to find a 'normal' cd drive to rescue the data of the cd, then re-burn it so i could use the damned thing.