Damn Small Apt Repository

Forum: DSL Ideas and Suggestions
Topic: Damn Small Apt Repository
started by: Grim

Posted by Grim on April 16 2004,10:33

I think Damn Small has gotten to the point where users are so impressed with it's functionality that they are no longer merely content with a liveCD they can carry anywhere. Users want the bloat-free functionality that Damn Small provides, installed to hard drive, on their machines.

I propose a working Damn Small apt repository set up for hdinstall users. Apt currently is hamstrung by the lack thereof. A few of the benefits from implementing the repository I purpose are the following:

*reduce the pressure on developers to rush the release of a new iso for minor bugfixes
*minimize bandwidth usage
*more thorougly test new packages
*seamlessly upgrade the distro

Minor bugfixes can be placed in the repository quickly to make the hdinstall userbase happy. This removes niggling distractions and allows the developers to focus on what's important (the next release) instead of rushing a new iso for minor bugfixes.

Implementing a repository will allow hdinstall users to install only what they need. Dillo, packaged in .deb form, is right around 220K. If Damn Small had a repository, a hundred hdinstall users upgrading Dillo would only use a little over 2MB of bandwidth, as opposed to the 5Gigs they're using now. I'm guessing mirrors would be more likely to contribute if they weren't going to be getting hammered so hard. A repository would be a step in that direction. Also, the Damn Small repository wouldn't have to add every Debian package, just those that are Damn Small-specific. There are already plenty of other Debian repositories and mirroring those would be a duplication of effort.

Another Debian feature is the testing repositories. It's generally understood that there isn't any support for testing so users implement it's use at their own risk. The benefits are twofold. For one, a testing branch allows developers to space out releases by providing the "bleeding edge" packages for impatient users and two, developers get bug feedback before deciding to roll new packages into the next release.

Finally, implementing a Damn Small repository would allow for seamless distro upgrades. Apt can be pinned to upgrade "Damn Small"-specific packages from the Damn Small repository. This would prevent users from breaking their installation by installing apps from other repositories that conflict with DSL's setup, most notibly the X servers. This would also address prior points made about reducing bandwidth usage by preventing users from downloading the whole distro all over again and only update those new packages that they need.

Taking in the big picture, I think an apt repository is the next logical step for Damn Small.

Posted by l0st on April 16 2004,13:22

Excellent proposal.
Only problem I see is this is a (relatively) small project and maintaining an apt repository is too much.

Posted by Grim on April 17 2004,04:33

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Only problem I see is this is a (relatively) small project and maintaining an apt repository is too much.

So...you're suggesting we maintain a larger repository?

Posted by John on April 17 2004,07:31

I think it is a great idea, but I don't see it happening any time soon. The reason is because we are already giving as much as possible to this project while living normal lives with normal life responsibilities.

Many of the non-system applications in DSL are independently compiled and a couple of the applications are actually pulled from Slackware derivatives.

Having a fully apt functional system specific to DSL would be a very large undertaking and I just don't see us having the time to pull that together right now.

Posted by Del on April 17 2004,18:40

Grim,
I think l0st meant that DSL is a (relatively) small project, and maintaining an apt resource of it's own is a larger scale operation than is feasable. (for now anyway?)

This could be a sub-project with it's own developers or something. Let John and RobertS work on DSL, and a couple others could volunteer to keep up an apt repository. I know jack about apt (I can install things, and sometimes I can successfully remove them!) so I'm not going to offer myself. For now, I'm guessing it's going to stay a wish, and maybe someday it might come together.

Posted by Grim on April 19 2004,06:43

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Many of the non-system applications in DSL are independently compiled and a couple of the applications are actually pulled from Slackware derivatives.

I understand that, John, and I wasn't suggesting that you or any of the other developers do this personally. While I don't have the time to reinstall my machine for testing purposes, I can help build and maintain packages to support a repository. I do believe that it will, eventually, save you time, as outlined in my original post.

Quote

I think l0st meant that DSL is a (relatively) small project, and maintaining an apt resource of it's own is a larger scale operation than is feasable. (for now anyway?)

I agree. I also pointed out in my original post that due to the small amount of DSL-specific packages, it would be easier to maintain a repository for DSL. One wouldn't require a package for every app included in the distro, just the gotchas that aren't provided by standard Debian repositories. Examples include: Xservers, the patched Dillo, gLinks-hacker,??? There are apps installed that aren't packaged in debs, but I'm not sure if these unpackaged apps are there out of expediency or necessity due to the lack of an existing package. There exists, for example, a prepackaged version of zile, but DSL uses a statically compiled executable. Why? I don't know. I'm not a developer.

If it's possible, I'd like a list of apps that need deb packages so that I can begin work on a DSL-specific apt repository. I can be reached at grim@grimthing.com