How to create a custom version of DSL?
Forum: DSL Ideas and Suggestions
Topic: How to create a custom version of DSL?
started by: UnDude
Posted by UnDude on July 21 2004,22:27
Greetings,Please bear with me here, this is rather long, and I'm also relatively new to Linux.
I have an elderly aunt and uncle who would like to get on the Internet for web surfing, email, and maybe shopping. They don't know anything about computers, and IMO they shouldn't have to. They also don't have much $$$ to throw at this, and neither do I.
Last year, I rebuilt and gave them an old Compaq Presario 633 PC with the following hardware:
486SX-33 MHz CPU
24 MB RAM
210 MB IDE HD
16x CD-ROM Drive
3.5" Floppy Drive
33.6k ISA Modem
Sound Card
14" Monitor, Speakers, Keyboard, Mouse, yada yada
I installed Windows 95 OSR2 on the HD. Since you need a fairly modern web browser to be able to properly display all the fancy stuff people put in web pages these days, I installed Opera 5.12 and got them set up with a local ISP. I also gave them a touch typing tutor, a Windows tutor, and a CD full of games to help them learn how to run the computer, use the keyboard and mouse, etc.
The Problems:
1) It runs, but it's *really* slow (especially Opera).
2) Their great grandkids tend to play with the computer when they visit, and it's too easy for them to mess up the desktop (by deleting icons, changing settings, trying to install junk they bring on their own CDs, etc.) and even Windows itself.
3) This PC is too old/small/slow to install a more secure version of Windows, like NT 4 (okay, *maybe* it could run NT 3.51 -- Gag!).
I've downloaded and burned DSL 0.7.2 on a CD-RW and booted it up on one of my old PCs here, and I must say I *am* impressed. It didn't recognize my sound card or ethernet card, but it seemed reasonably fast, even though I was running it from only a 6x read speed CD-RW drive. Setting up PPP was a breeze, and Dillo surfed the web painlessly.
So here's my question:
How hard would it be to put together a customized "Internet Appliance with Games" version of DSL for my aunt and uncle by stripping out some things they don't need and throwing in some games that would run on their speed-challenged PC?
I'd like to keep the following:
the GUI desktop (X servers, Fluxbox, file manager, desktop icons, etc.)
PPP
web browsers
maybe an email client (their ISP does support a Webmail interface)
a point-and-click text editor
PDF file viewer
calculator
These items could probably be removed:
FTP client (if the web browser can handle FTP)
any fancy resource-hogging multimedia (audio/video) players
office-type apps (word processor, spreadsheet, etc)
any superfluous text editors
graphics editors
any server-type programs
USB, PCMCIA, and wireless support
And I'd like to add in the following:
any games that wouldn't bog down their PC
maybe a typing tutor
an MS Word document viewer (they might run across those on the web)
Also, the bootup process should not require any user intervention. When I booted DSL, I had to tell it how many rows and columns to use for text as well as what screen resolution to use for X. That's okay for me, but for my aunt and uncle, could this info be stored in a configuration file so that DSL boots all the way to the desktop without them having to touch anything?
Their pre-El Torito 1994 BIOS PC doesn't support booting directly from CD, but the boot floppy would probably take care of that. I was thinking of maybe installing DSL on their hard drive, but I like the idea of running the OS from read-only media -- that eliminates any corruption concerns.
So basically, I'd like my aunt and uncle to be able to boot a custom version of DSL, then either play games or dial out to surf the web and compose/send/receive email, and they shouldn't have to know anything other than how to point, click, and type. Is this doable or reasonable?
I'm fairly familiar with MS Windows and do some computer programming, but my Linux "expertise" is as follows: Years ago I bought and installed RedHat 4.1, but could never get X to start. Since I knew very few console commands at that time, I abandoned it. Later I downloaded and installed RedHat 5.2 and did get about everything working except for sound. More recently I tried SuSe. X ran, but the screen was overlaid with a grid of horizontal black lines, and I couldn't see anything well enough to mess with it. Abandoned. Mandrake 9 was a keeper. I liked the install process, and it recognized all my hardware. I put LILO on the Mandrake partition itself (and on a floppy, just in case), then copied the Mandrake partition's boot sector to a file on my primary bootable DOS partition, where I am using NTLDR as my boot manager (my main OS is Windows 2000 Pro). I learned iptables and configured that in Mandrake as an Internet firewall and for connection sharing (I have four PCs on a 10Base-T network). I have never compiled a kernel or messed with the internals of Linux that drastically.
Posted by SaidinUnleashed on July 22 2004,02:04
2 questions first.1. have you tried to boot DSL on this comp? If it is one of those old school ghetto 486sx's with no math coprocessor, DSL = no worky. try it before you get your hopes up too far. also try dialing the modem when you boot from the CD. Linux hates winmodems. Since it's an ISA modem, it's probably a controller modem, but truly frightening things like ISA winmodems do exist.
2. does this box use an IDE interface for the HDD or is it one of those "ye olde HDD interface in the thymes of yore" before IDE was mainstream?
If it is IDE, perhaps you should consider an IDE to Compact Flash adapter and DSL frugally installed onto the card. flip the switch to make the CF card write protected after you get it set up and load it up with with the .dsl 's you want. Like Firefox.
as for the other apps you want, you could make the old HDD the slave and use 64mb of it as a swap partition and the rest of it as bulk storage.
as for games, try the Ace-of -Penguins .dsl.
typing tutor? hunt and peck would probably be just fine. no offense intended, but typing isn't healthy for old people.
as for a MS word .doc viewer, Abiword should work. once again, there is a .dsl for that too. ^_^
and for making it all easy to find, make shortcuts for each thing on the desktop. its not that hard. /home/dsl/.xtdesktop i think is the file for the desktop. you can even make a shortcut for connecting/disconnecting their ISP.
your X-setup settings are remembered on a hd install, so thats a moot point, but i don't know how to make DSL auto-login. you'll have to find someone smarter than me to do that.
but don't remove the apps you think you don't need. you might need one of them one day.
look in the DSL store for the IDE to CF adapters (there not really any cheaper anywhere else, and buying stuff there helps keep DSL going) and even DSL pre-installed on a CF card.
Posted by cbagger01 on July 22 2004,03:01
Below is a story of someone who got an older version of DSL to work on a 486sx computer:< http://damnsmalllinux.org/486.html >
According to the report, glinks does not work on the 486sx but it does work on the 486dx.
If the current version of DSL does not work on your 486sx computer, you could try a version with the older kernel stored in the archives like version 0.5.3.1
FYI, it is HIGHLY advisable that you create a swap file or swap partition on your old computer since you may exceed your available RAM.
If you want decent speed but you also want to keep the "read only" nature of DSL, please try a "frugal install" or a "poorman's install" on your hard drive. Search the forums for details.
In a nutshell, the read-only filesystem that is contained on the CD disk is still intact because you move the compressed image of the file system over to your hard drive and store it as a file on your MSDOS/Win 95 partition.
The hard drive runs much faster than CDROM disk drives and this frees up your cd drive bay for other uses like reading files that are stored on a second CD-R disk.
Because the filesystem is still compressed and read-only, the users cannot edit any operating system files. The only exposure to an "oops" is if a user boots into MSDOS or Windows 95 and then deletes the big compressed image file.
If so, just copy the big image file back over again from the CD disk and you are back in business.
Also, you can store your bootup configuration files or other files into a backup *.tar.gz file (similar to a zip file in DOS) that should be written to your DOS parititon on the hard drive or to a floppy disk and you can automatically restore it on bootup.
So you don't need to answer those questions every time that you boot up once you backup your choices.
Hope this helps.
Posted by UnDude on July 23 2004,05:42
SaidinUnleashed Posted: July 21 2004,22:04 > 2 questions first.
>
> 1. have you tried to boot DSL on this comp?
No, they've still got it. I could take along a DSL CD and a boot floppy the
next time I go to visit them, though.
> If it is one of those old school
> ghetto 486sx's with no math coprocessor, DSL = no worky. try it before you
> get your hopes up too far.
It's definitely a 486"SUX" with no math coprocessor.
> also try dialing the modem when you boot from the
> CD. Linux hates winmodems. Since it's an ISA modem, it's probably a
> controller modem, but truly frightening things like ISA winmodems do exist.
It's a hardware modem with COM port & IRQ jumpers.
> 2. does this box use an IDE interface for the HDD or is it one of those "ye
> olde HDD interface in the thymes of yore" before IDE was mainstream?
It's standard IDE (ATA-2, I think). The HD is primary master, the CD is
primary slave. No secondary IDE port.
> If it is IDE, perhaps you should consider an IDE to Compact Flash adapter
> and DSL frugally installed onto the card. flip the switch to make the CF
> card write protected after you get it set up and load it up with with the
> .dsl 's you want. Like Firefox.
>
> as for the other apps you want, you could make the old HDD the slave and use
> 64mb of it as a swap partition and the rest of it as bulk storage.
That's a possibility.
> as for games, try the Ace-of -Penguins .dsl.
O.K.
> typing tutor? hunt and peck would probably be just fine. no offense
> intended, but typing isn't healthy for old people.
Yeah, tell me about it. They'd like to send email, but they're not too crazy
about learning to type.
> as for a MS word .doc viewer, Abiword should work. once again, there is a
> .dsl for that too. ^_^
O.K.
> and for making it all easy to find, make shortcuts for each thing on the
> desktop. its not that hard. /home/dsl/.xtdesktop i think is the file for the
> desktop. you can even make a shortcut for connecting/disconnecting their
> ISP.
I'd definitely want to do that.
> your X-setup settings are remembered on a hd install, so thats a moot point,
> but i don't know how to make DSL auto-login. you'll have to find someone
> smarter than me to do that.
When you boot the regular CD, doesn't it automatically log you in as user dsl?
> but don't remove the apps you think you don't need. you might need one of
> them one day.
As long as I've got the space for them.
> look in the DSL store for the IDE to CF adapters (there not really any
> cheaper anywhere else, and buying stuff there helps keep DSL going) and even
> DSL pre-installed on a CF card.
Thanks for your help!
Posted by UnDude on July 23 2004,06:37
cbagger01 Posted: July 21 2004,23:01 > Below is a story of someone who got an older version of DSL to work on a
> 486sx computer:
>
> < http://damnsmalllinux.org/486.html >
I read this article earlier with great interest. They didn't mention which
version of DSL they used, though.
> According to the report, glinks does not work on the 486sx but it does work
> on the 486dx.
I didn't know that glinks was the nicer web browser when I originally read the
report. I gather that the Dillo browser lacks some of the features that
glinks has(?).
> If the current version of DSL does not work on your 486sx computer, you
> could try a version with the older kernel stored in the archives like
> version 0.5.3.1
O.K.
> FYI, it is HIGHLY advisable that you create a swap file or swap partition on
> your old computer since you may exceed your available RAM.
>
> If you want decent speed but you also want to keep the "read only" nature of
> DSL, please try a "frugal install" or a "poorman's install" on your hard
> drive. Search the forums for details.
Just did that. I wondered earlier why the standard HD install procedure
requires ~250 MB of HD space while the CD itself is only 50 MB -- the files on
the CD are compressed. I take it that the "frugal install" is a specific type
of "poorman's install" with its own installation script?
> In a nutshell, the read-only filesystem that is contained on the CD disk is
> still intact because you move the compressed image of the file system over
> to your hard drive and store it as a file on your MSDOS/Win 95 partition.
If I were to install DSL on this PC's HD, I would probably wipe out Win95
altogether. In addition to a Linux swap partition, how should I format the
main Linux partition? As ext2? ext3? ReiserFS? FAT-16?
> The hard drive runs much faster than CDROM disk drives and this frees up
> your cd drive bay for other uses like reading files that are stored on a
> second CD-R disk.
Or playing audio CDs. Yes, I see the value in doing this.
> Because the filesystem is still compressed and read-only, the users cannot
> edit any operating system files. The only exposure to an "oops" is if a
> user boots into MSDOS or Windows 95 and then deletes the big compressed
> image file.
Cool. If Win95 is history, they could still boot a DOS floppy, but if the HD
is formatted as ext2... it may be harder to mess with.
> If so, just copy the big image file back over again from the CD disk and you
> are back in business.
Easy enough. The CD is your own ready-made backup.
> Also, you can store your bootup configuration files or other files into a
> backup *.tar.gz file (similar to a zip file in DOS) that should be written
> to your DOS parititon on the hard drive or to a floppy disk and you can
> automatically restore it on bootup.
Good idea. I seem to recall in Mandrake there was a configuration script that
gets executed (as root, I think) during bootup, and I had to add a line to it
to start iptables once I got that configured. I'll have to look into DSL's
boot process.
> So you don't need to answer those questions every time that you boot up once
> you backup your choices.
Absolutely. For my aunt and uncle, bootup has to be a hands-off process.
> Hope this helps.
Definitely! I think the frugal HD install gives me the best of everything I
want for this. The first thing I'll do is see what version of DSL will even
boot on this 486"SUX" PC.
The last time I visited my aunt and uncle, which was several months ago, I was
returning the computer to them after having straightened out the shenanigans
that their great-grandkids had applied to it. I told them to send me an email
to let me know how everything was working. I never heard from them, so I
suspect something is wrong with the computer again. If so, that may be a good
excuse for me to "borrow" it for a while the next time I go visit.
Thanks for your time and help with this!
Posted by Rapidweather on July 26 2004,23:41
I did get Grey Cat Linux 3.0 to work on a 486SX 25 laptop with only 8 mb ram.Set it up as a server, and it works. Put a 120 MB hdd in it, and the web server is
thttpd.
Here is what will run at once: Netscape 3.04, Xedit, thttpd, ppp-on and "top"
All in X, of course. Xedit is similar to Gnotepad, and allows on the fly changes to the served web page.
This Compaq Contura will run Windows 3.1 very well, but I wanted to set up a
new HDD with only Linux, and since I had no cdrom drive, Grey Cat Linux was
used. I used MSDOS to transfer the files from a larger PC via the serial port.
---
These old boxes are fun to work with if you have the time, as they are slow...
This particular Compaq had a busted screen, so had to use a crt monitor with it.
---
Posted by UnDude on July 27 2004,00:59
Wow. I didn't know you could run X in only 8 MB RAM. I am now downloading Grey Cat Linux 3.0 as I write this.My Dad originally bought that 486SX-33 in November 1994 (and it wasn't the latest technology even then) with Windows 3.1 and 4 MB RAM. I remember, speed-wise, it wasn't too bad, but even after upping the RAM to 24 MB, Win95 is still pretty slow. I installed Policy Manager in '95 to keep the kids from messing it up, but it's been a PITA to set up.
Netscape 3.x was my favorite web browser for a long time (I *refuse* to use MSIE) until Javascript advanced to the point where Netscape would no longer display many websites correctly. Today I use Opera.
I've also downloaded DamnSmallLinux version 0.5.3.1 and done some more digging through these forums, stumbling across an April 14, 2004 post by meo entitled " ReMastering HOWTO for DSL" that looks pretty interesting. These will all give me a few things to play with.