Forum: Release Candidates
started by: roberts
Posted by roberts on Jan. 25 2006,06:17The first release candidate for DSL v 2.2 is now posted < here >
Change Log for DSL-2.2RC1.
1. Updated dmix - added sync button for easy volume control.
2. Updated Wallpaper.lua now has color chooser for background color.
3. Updated pcitable to correctly support Broadcom b44 module.
4. New extension check upon exit, will remind/allow user to save extensions downloaded to ramdisk before shutdown.
5. Updated French keymaps.
6. For maximum hardware support on older computers, kernel and modules were changed back to 2.4.26.
7. Removed mc for space reasons.
8. Ted help/manual now off loaded to current/documentation section of the download site.
9. General cleanup of some unused directories and libraries.
Posted by Viktor Lakics on Jan. 25 2006,09:41
I do realize that this is not my choice what gets removed and goes in to DSL, but I will miss mc dearly... No matter how many "graphical" file managers I have tried, I allways go back to mc on a console...
Is there any chance to keep mc at the expense of something else?
Posted by enthusi on Jan. 25 2006,10:12Uh, Id really really miss MC as well (
It suited dsl so very fine...
Id very much rather get rid of alternative windowmanagers instead of nice tools...
Just my opinion of course,
Posted by orzeuek on Jan. 25 2006,10:41Myself, like the others, also can't work without Midnight Commander.
I've tried numerous file managers in my life but nothing is like Norton Commander [old days] or Midnight Commander [nowadays].
Please reconsider throwing something else away :)
I know I can install mc from apt, but mostly I use DSL from USB on messed up Windows PC's [almost everyday] and by the time I set an internet connection and get mc I would already fix the problem.
Working with mc is sooooo fast. Try that with a graphical FileManager :)
THX for reading this.
Posted by maelcum on Jan. 25 2006,11:46no mc? no 2.2 install for me ;)
mc is essential
Posted by ugol on Jan. 25 2006,11:48Hi everybody,
for what concerns coming back to the kernel 2.4.26 in order to work with older PC's, might you consider to reintroduce the zipboot option
so that one can run DSL on ZIP disk connected to the parallel port?
Such iomega ZIP disks can be run on EVERY old PC's, while some of them have not an USB port or (by my experience) they are unable to read a rather new CD (whichever the speed of the baking).
In order to do run from a ZIP disk, I actually boot from an old version bootfloppy (related to DSL 0.8, if I'm right), then it complains a lot because it didn't find the modules related to the 2.4.26 kernel (of course, on the ZIP I've DSL 2.1 with kernel 2.4.31), but it let me work and do the "poorman install". Thus, the next boot can be done via the bootfloppy related to DSL 2.1 so that the system is read from the HD.
At the end, everything works but it is a little complicated. I would like it could be simpler, especially because I'm producing some remastered version for students in Math (you know, you must be as simple as possible if you wish the students quit Windows... and they actually can't run the programs we need on an old PC with W95/98).
At last, jwm is very good for working with students because it is so similar to icewm which is so clean (and without sources of distractions...) that I've set it as default WM in our PC classroom even on very recent PC's. Therefore, let me defend jwm even if I understand the friends wishing mc will not be wasted.
Posted by jls legalize on Jan. 25 2006,11:49how can I upgrade from 2.1b? I'm talking about backup.tar.gz.
Posted by ramsys on Jan. 25 2006,12:21Like the others I think mc shouldn't be removed.
Just an opinion.
Posted by desnotes on Jan. 25 2006,13:28This is an issue related ot the embedded version of DSL but I'm hoping if it can be resolved it will not cause an issue with other uses.
I am using an HD image (hdb) to install MyDSL apps. However, I noticed during the Qemu boot process, there is a check for MYDSL apps before hdb is restored. This causes any MyDSL apps on hdb to not be available automatically. Would it be possible to change the boot process order for the HD images to be restored before checking for MyDSL apps so they would be available and displayed at startup?
Posted by torp on Jan. 25 2006,13:51Like the new RC. I have learned to love emelFM, and hadn't used mc in months. With that said why not just install as a .dsl for those of you who "can't live without it"? This seems like a very stable build.
Posted by roberts on Jan. 25 2006,15:02
Iomega Zip should be supported. Please use the bootfloppy images in the release candidate area. These boot floppy images are the same as the v0.8 which is for 2.4.26 kernel.
Posted by roberts on Jan. 25 2006,15:13
The only system change that might be involved is:
.jwmrc and .fluxbox/menu
These are not by default in the backup, so might not need to change them. For persistent home, yes they need to be updated.
This is where the exit check for ramdisk loaded extensions is called.
If needed copy them from /etc/skel
Note: First bug report already received, doc apps still on fluxbox menu and should have been removed as those are no longer in the base system.
Posted by skaos on Jan. 25 2006,15:19My vote goes for mc as well.
Another thing I always do when I install linux is to set root's prompt colour to bold red. This way I reduce the probability of doing stupid things. Is it possible to include this in DSL as well? If so, add something like this to .bashrc and .bash_profile:
Posted by mikshaw on Jan. 25 2006,15:23The possibility of removing mc was brought up not long ago, and i kept in mind that i may one day need to build mc.uci. So...that's what i'm gonna do today.
It will hopefully be better than DSL's mc (subshell support, user menu, file association), so maybe it'll be worth waiting for. =o)
Posted by Red04Bull on Jan. 25 2006,16:15would it be possible in the next RC to fix the frugal_install.sh and support doing an install on a non-hdax(ex. hdb1 or hdc1)
this way it could be done in runlevel 2 instead of loading the gui
Posted by MethodOne on Jan. 25 2006,18:49Is there SATA support in this version?
Posted by ModderXManiac on Jan. 25 2006,19:10You could just re-install MC yourself, recompile it if you wanted too, but I will miss it as well; I think one of the graphical file managers should be removed instead, I seem to work considerably faster in MC.
Posted by John on Jan. 25 2006,19:17MC fans tell me what you would like to see removed in its place. We were also considering removing Vim and replacing it with the busybox version, but the busybox vi really lacks the features that make vim a full featured editor.
These choices are not easy, we could cut hardware support, or drop grub, or drop a redundant app. And MC competes with shell commands (ls, cd, rm, etc.) as well as emeLFM.
We only have one gui file manager, and I think the outcry would be just as high , or higher, if we removed that.
re Sata, no. You will have to wait for our 2.6 kernel version which will end up a new branch based on DSL but will not be DSL proper.
Posted by MethodOne on Jan. 25 2006,19:27I'll stick to using vmplayer right now.
Posted by crusadingknight on Jan. 25 2006,19:30Uhm... speaking of removing something else, it would be easier if < http://damnsmalllinux.org/packages.html > were updated, so we knew our choices.
Posted by mikshaw on Jan. 25 2006,19:42John: I think you're right in saying that there would be greater disdain for the removal of Emelfm. Personally I very seldom use it...mainly just when i boot into a vanilla DSL without my mc configs....but i think most users do.
Me, I don't care. I already have a working version of mc that includes subshell, user menu, resizable window, ability to enter archives as directories, and probably some other stuff not available in the DSL version, so i'm going to use that even if you decide to put mc back in =o). It the same with Vim. I never use Beaver, but i don't often use DSL's vim either...gotta have my syntax highlighting!
crusadingknight: As far as I know, the packages list is becoming less and less applicable with each release. That list is for Debian packages only, which seem to be getting ripped out of DSL a little more each month.
Posted by winux on Jan. 25 2006,20:24
Yes I DO USE Emelfm now that I discovered and learnt how to use this wonderful, so comprehensive tool for the NON terminal fanatics!!!!
Posted by clacker on Jan. 25 2006,20:49I like emelfm better, but mc would be OK.
I see in the Desktop->dockapps menu that there are lots of choices for things that don't exist anymore, like the doc apps.
My BCM5700 network card is no longer supported right out of the box, but that is to be expected. I'll miss the SATA support as well.
If you want to remove something, I'd recomend siag spreadsheet.
As far as the busybox vi, please, no more busybox anything. It's nice that it's small and all, but half of the things I try to do don't work and it takes forever to figure out that the ps is there, but it's a stripped down piece of crap ps that lacks the command line switches what I was trying to run required.
Posted by daacosta on Jan. 25 2006,22:00Perhaps beaver is a good candidate to go? VIM does the same...
I am a clueless n00b so please bear with me
I would like to have siag available in DSL
Posted by crusadingknight on Jan. 25 2006,22:41
The version of Vim in DSL doesn't support syntax highlighting. Beaver does. (Myself, I recompiled). Anyway, I doubt people new to DSL will like a variety of GUI office apps, and only vim and nano for text editors.
Myself, I dislike nano, but it probably has it's followers.
Posted by ezap on Jan. 25 2006,22:59mc is absolutely essential
I use DSL on several machines
it's how I get around
Posted by plinej on Jan. 25 2006,23:17Thank you!! ndiswrapper works with my internal broadcom wireless modem again.
Posted by bokaroseani on Jan. 25 2006,23:20DSL2.2RC1 does not recognize my network card.
I need to keep using DSL2.1b.
Posted by MethodOne on Jan. 26 2006,00:42What do you get for a network card with the lspci command in the terminal?
Posted by daacosta on Jan. 26 2006,01:46
Yes, that is true, but isn't that a luxury that we can do without?
Again, I am a total n00b here
Posted by green on Jan. 26 2006,06:02Just my .02 cents worth, but here goes...
List of things to dump (get rid of), they could become .dsl or .uci files:
4. Postscript Viewer
5. PIM using Index
6. SQLite Book
8. Ace of Penguins
9. Midnight Commander
10. jwm (i like it, but i flux better)
Posted by cbagger01 on Jan. 26 2006,06:22Forced to choose, I'd convert GRUB to a downloadable script as a Mydsl extension file.
It is only used for installations, which are done infrequently.
Browsing for files, or editing textfiles are done more often even when running from livecd on a PC that is not connected to the Internet.
Regardless, my vote for the program to leave is the new version of TED. In addition to some flakey behavior when you try and print a document, the program and all of it's associated files take up a large amount of space, even after they are compressed. I don't know the exact size, but the TED 2.14 extension weighs in at 4.2MB and that is a gzipped compressed file.
I like TED, but not at the expense of a whole bunch of other programs.
Some possible alternatives:
1) Figure out some way to slim down TED or slim down the associated files like the ones in /usr/share/ted for example.
EDIT: I didn't read the part about the TED docs being offloaded to the DSL web site in 2.2RC1. I am still running 2.1b, so I did not realize that it has already been done to some extent.
2) Put FLWriter back in (I dunno about the size of this program).
3) Resume the Hunt for the best compromise of word processor functionality vs. size
Just my $0.02
Posted by armelle on Jan. 26 2006,09:23without mc ?
...not fine ...
Posted by Grim on Jan. 26 2006,09:53Personally, and I've said this in a couple of other threads, we should drop betaFTPd. There's already a SSH server in there that does everything that beta does and it does it better. If people need anonymous downloads, they can use monkey.
Something else I've also mentioned but I'm not sure if I posted it in the right thread, is there any reason we couldn't use upx to pack up some executables and save some space? True, it would require that we add libucl1 which weighs in at a whopping 96 bytes, but it could reduce the average filesize of a number of apps. I'm not sure how much overhead that would add to the processing for older machines, but it'd make for a neat test.
I'm a vim biggot so you know which way I vote there. I could give a damn if there weren't any other editors on the base iso 'cause I'll never use 'em anyways, but I can understand that other people are probably just as passionate about their editor of choice **cough*emacs.sucks*cough**.
Posted by enthusi on Jan. 26 2006,10:12@John et al.
I'd dump alot instead of MC.
I agree with green lists mostly.
Things to dumb instead:
- ALL toys/games (even for future space-needs)
- a 2nd winmanager (I understand how people like both of them - I think for a distro its ok to stick to one. Id even understand if its not fluxbox (that I prefer alot though)). In my exp people changing their managers are not that new to linux anyway and can dl it. Also its not essential for quick-use-in-the-pocket as MC is for many people.
- maybe even xpaint. Though its a cool app, I doubt its actually used very often
Things that should stay (I think):
Grub-stuff. I think grub really is a step forward without beeing bloated. Its way more userfriendly and failsafe (in my exp at least)
I even thought TCC was a good addition but I think that discussion is over
I had quite a bad feeling when the controller failed to work and MC was announced removed. Since 0.1 its the first time I didnt think 'YAY' - but Im optimistic
Keep up the great work!
in the last DSL, my ide-controller with CMD649-chip was NOT recognized. Thats very bad since its quite common and not even that old.
I havent tried this new candidate yet. Might just have been the kernel.
Posted by xdesk on Jan. 26 2006,10:43NO MC
That's very bad - while maybe 10% of the users might be happier with some GUI file manager MC can also be used after booting with "dsl 2" !!!
There are probably other things that should go first - like TED
Even jwm - I personally like that one better than fluxbox but many programs (like the MyDSL mplayer) do not seem to work well with it so it should be either fixed or dropped
Even Firefox is a better contender to be moved to MyDSL ...
Posted by ruserious on Jan. 26 2006,12:08Hehehe, this is pretty funny. Last time when links got dropped, plenty of people (me included) said they ould rather drop mc instead of links. It sems like every aplication has its own hardcore fanbase.
I think mc is pretty unnecessary. Everybody who works on the console, can use regular shell command. And people who prefer a GUI have something they can use as well. The feature-set of mc is simply not unique, it's only convenience of not changing habits, nothing more. I don't mind seeing mc go, and yes, I have used it (=equivalents) a lot, for years back then. If I was able to loose that habit, you can, too! ;)
Btw: Great job on already having 2.2RC out the door. I was just barely able to give 2.1 (final) a try a few days ago.
Posted by Red04Bull on Jan. 26 2006,13:41i vote to get ride of the games (if you really want them just dl them)
and to get ride of xpaint because you can get gimp which is better anyway if you want to and for myself i just ssh into a machine with gimp anyway
Posted by winux on Jan. 26 2006,14:42I tested the French keyboard because it was an issue for me in the previous release. Here are my tests plus a spredsheet as summary. What is strange is that the keyboard reacts differently from one application to the other?
Tests made from
Dillo : the URL line
Yahoo : inside the message to be sent
Beaver : inside a new document
Sylpheed : the name of a new account
The "less painful" is latin 1 because:
I can send a mail from Sylpheed (everything's OK)
lack of @ could be a Pb to send a mail from Yahoo (Ctrl+C/Ctrl+V could be a temporary solution)
the rest is fine except Beaver for special characters (éèà …)
Posted by mikshaw on Jan. 26 2006,16:04
I disagree with this mostly. It sounds to me like saying "Everybody who prefers using keyboard in X can use ratpoison". People who use console often prefer it because it is much faster and more flexible than working with a mouse. Midnight Commander makes things even faster than a plain shell by giving you hotkeys and windows to access files and commands. It also allows you to use the very same skill set in either console or X, rather than having to adjust your behavior to do the same tasks in both...I like to call that "efficient".
You do make the point that the same tasks *can* be done in a shell, which is ultimately a more flexible and necessary tool. However, you can do the same tasks as emelfm from within an X shell. The feature set of emelfm is simply not unique (clicking isn't unique...mc has mouse support).
In any case, i've said it doesn't really matter to me what apps are added and removed, and that remains mostly true. Personally I'd like to see DSL be closer to 20-30mb....no applications other than those necessary to get you booted into an x terminal and run the DSL tools. From that point, any additional apps, including window manager, file manager, browser, etc., can be mounted into the file system.
Posted by green on Jan. 26 2006,16:52
I agree with Mikshaw, to a point. I would keep Fluxbox, but otherwise a very basic system. With MyDSL, everything else could be added "a la cart", so to speak. That may not be desireable for modem line users, but it would work.
Posted by plinej on Jan. 26 2006,17:01Every website I go to with flash seems to freeze Firefox in this release. Anyone able to use flash successfully? I tried the firefox version that comes with DSL as well as the 1.5.uci.
Posted by enthusi on Jan. 26 2006,17:15about DSL-apps in general:
I dont want to rise a pointless discussion but I think its wrong to assume nowadays everyone has inet-access everywhere and everytime. Inet is way overrated and I love about dsl that it includes what makes sense (even xmms) without some stupid inet-access. If I had full inet support Id go for full debian anyway. For me thats the whole point of the business-card-sized linux. smart, fast and MOST OF ALL: independent. Thus I love xpdf, dillo, fluxbox and all the small usefull tools: just as MC
All non-essential (I even think of firefox as redundant since there is dillo but I know many disagree) stuff can be added. Either on a large other CD, or the inet. I really hope that lowlevel-support will be granted in the future of DSL.
Especially my old PC dont even have a modem/networkcard. These days I dont even have inet-access at home since there is no NEED for it and I rather invest the money in new CF-cards
Ok, before getting too personal...
DSL is a great and hopefully stays a FULL and LIVE-distro.
Capable of running stand-alone. Id gladly even give up MC if that's what it takes to make room for an even more usefull app (In my opinion that would only be TCC
To sum up:
I think NO task should be covered by several alternatives...
Thus: kick them all...
Maybe emelfm + MC is ok as gui + non-gui but if space is rare Id even let go one of them. I had mixed feelings already about firefox. Its a great app but also big of course.
Im getting the feeling there might be some decisions to be made (more maybe then in the past) by John, Roberts & co.
I know I will love what they come up with
Posted by roberts on Jan. 26 2006,17:19To all MC fans,
Midnight Commander will be back in DSL.
Look for it in the next RC.
Posted by enthusi on Jan. 26 2006,17:21You just made me very happy <3
Posted by roberts on Jan. 26 2006,17:22
It is working fine for me. Just played a rather large and popular flash cartoon with sound.
Posted by clacker on Jan. 26 2006,17:32Grim: upx is great as far as memory on a toram booted dsl, but doesn't reduce the size of the dsl iso much (if any) because the iso KNOPPIX is already compressed. So what you gained by the create_compressed_fs is lost by trying to compress an already compressed file.
I think betaftp should stay in the distro. Athough I agree with Grim that a user could create a website and allow downloads from that using monkey, I believe ftp is easier for a newer user to impliment and get running. It also provides password security and can be accessed from internet explorer.
plinej, did you load the flash plugin?
Posted by plinej on Jan. 26 2006,18:07Yeah, I loaded the flash plugin. The websites start to load but freeze up .
Posted by winux on Jan. 26 2006,18:28
Yes I disagree w/ you regarding Dillo / Firefox redundancy. Actually you cannot keep Dillo only because, as far as I read, it does not accept https, so forget the access to your bank account, to Yahoo mail, ...
Maybe FF is big, but is there s.t. in between Dillo and FF, w/ a light window manager??? I don't know
Posted by plinej on Jan. 26 2006,18:35Flash now works fine when I boot with the parameter "noapic". I also need that parameter for dsl to recognize my usb devices. This kernel seems to mount my external usb drive very slowly and transferring files between that and my internal hard drive is painfully slower than it is in the 2.1 release. Is there some other boot parameter I should use for that?
Posted by plinej on Jan. 26 2006,18:51I personally use Firefox and not Dillo but I'd vote for getting rid of Firefox. You can download the Firefox extension in the dsl repository instead. If you have a need for a web browser you've obviously got an internet connection to use so downloading the extension shouldn't be a problem.
Posted by winux on Jan. 26 2006,18:59
That's a very good remark, as long as FF is in MyDSL, no Pb to drop it finally!!
Posted by plinej on Jan. 26 2006,19:05It is in the repository. I made a uci of the latest version 1.5 which is in the testing repository right now.
Posted by winux on Jan. 26 2006,19:07OK, no Pb
Posted by crusadingknight on Jan. 26 2006,19:22Dropping FF doesn't make sense until most, or all of the goals described at the < Dillo Goals > page are completed. If it can't even read the output of NaturalDocs, what use is it beyond reading texinfo-generated pages?
Posted by plinej on Jan. 26 2006,19:27When you get online, fire up Dillo, go to the repository, download the firefox uci, save it to your hard drive, and use the mydsl boot parameter to point to it. You only have to do it once and alot of room is cleared up for the base iso.
Posted by daacosta on Jan. 26 2006,20:46Is it possible to have a full version of VIM (to support highlighting) and remove beaver? In regards to the browsers I much rather have firefox that is by far more standard. I saw dillo's webpage and considered it noble but nonetheless a duplicated effort... I myself didn't care much for Ted to be honest (is abiword too heavy?) I can do without the games but many more people might not
Again: I am n00b
Posted by badhoven on Jan. 26 2006,21:00hi @all, I'm new to this forum but have followed it for quite a time now. I've been using dsl for about two years now, and due to recent development I also like to add my coments.
I really like dsl but I also dislike some new changes.
jwm eg. who really needs or uses it. First time I tried it messed up all my fluxbox setting. Then all the changes which come with it, I really miss all the cool and functional dockapps. And what we have momentarily as alternative may be nice but it's just not the same.
As for the choice of applications:
As a professional windoze user (yeah I know, don't blame me, I hate it too) and former linux server admin I use dsl mostly as a recovery system at work and in private as my desktop system of choice. however I need to have great compatability to standard win software, especially office. So I use quite some dsl extensions to cover my needs. I really think this user scenario represents the majority of dsl users. Keeping this in mind and looking at the fact that dsl is targetted to be a damn small desktop system with ONE application for every need I would vote for the following changes in applications:
- get rid of jwm (who needs two wms? and it really sucks anyway, sorry I know you had a lot of work with it)
remove firefox and use it as extension (yeah I'm a firefox and thunderbird enthusiast also, but its just too big and can easily be used as extension, additionally, who needs dillo and firefox anyway)
- remove ted (it's really nice, but practically not usable for the standard user and too big again for it's usability)
use the complete siag office suite instead (it's really tiny and has a lot of good ideas, also it comes with spreadsheet, word processor and vector graphics,all that in 1.5mb)
- remove gphone, extension instead (again it's nice, but who uses gphone anyway? most people I know use skype, which is also an extension)
- get rid of the games, keep maybe x-tetris (does anyone actually play them?)
- also what most people miss is dvd support in xmms (but I guess that's due to licencing issues)
this way it should be possible to get dsl down under 40megs, then the saved space could be used to add some more diagnostic and network tools like nmap/amap, tcpdump, maybe stress or cpuburn.
Then dsl would be a really damn small linux system which covers the basics of every aspect, server utilities, desktop function, internet applications, diagnostics, recovery, well you could use it for everything and just add the rest you need with extensions.
Just an idea
DSL is really great work anyway. Thanks a lot for this distro and your dedication to it.
Posted by struppi on Jan. 26 2006,22:26my two cents to all these "new" forum - users loving dsl but somehow seem to look for something different...
as you said before: dsl is a desktop OS and no server, recovery or diagnostics OS.
- i use dillo and firefox. yes really... keep them, to have both is a great combination
- NO SIAG - OFFICE! in version 0.9.1 of dsl we had "patethic writer" and it wasn't possible to write a simple text. i never used a program that crashed so often.
- i use jwm KEEP IT ! it uses much less ressources on older machines. if you like fluxbox more, use fluxbox. why these dockapps if a few simple scripts and torsmo do the same?!? because they look cooler?
- dvd - support? why? dsl is designed to run on older machines, i don't think that dvd-support makes much sense on an pII233 with 48 mb.
and.... i use the games (and my girlfriend)
Posted by ugol on Jan. 26 2006,22:56Roberts said:
"Iomega Zip should be supported. Please use the bootfloppy images in the release candidate area. These boot floppy images are the same as the v0.8 which is for 2.4.26 kernel."
That's right! I've put the KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX file from the dsl 2.2 RC1 CD to my Iomega ZIP then I've booted from the bootfloppy related to this release candidate with the zipboot cheatcode: it worked!
My old PC is a Pentium II 233 Mhz with 64Mb of RAM.
I've also run the CD on my Toshiba satellite laptop: all right!
Please, consider two minor changes:
adding the zipboot option on one of the initial screens which can be seen by pressing either F2 or F3 at boot;
adding in the changelog that zipboot has been reactivated, because, trust me, in the previous few versions of DSL it didn't work.
Posted by winux on Jan. 26 2006,23:39NICE TO HAVE
a 24 hours/ am-pm clock option, just if it is a minor R&D change. I think European countries would appreciate, but it's a minor request, we can live w/o it of course!!
Posted by winux on Jan. 26 2006,23:58Problem to save the language on Frugal Install , help please!!
After Frugal install, I saved the applis thru emelfm by copying /mnt --> /cdrom OK
I saved the set-up parameters by clicking on the Backup/Restore button and writing my HD device Nb (hda6 in my case)
I checked in /cdrom that backup.tar.gz was there BUT the French keyboard is never saved, always US keyboard, and it worked fine in 2.1??
Any bug? did I miss something?
Thx for your advices
Posted by roberts on Jan. 27 2006,00:17The loadkeys your_keymap_here command is in /opt/bootlocal.sh
/opt/bootlocal.sh is by default part of filetool.lst and therefore should be in your backup.tar.gz
Check your /opt/bootlocal.sh file.
Posted by Grim on Jan. 27 2006,00:51
Yeah, I guess I need to wade through create_compressed_fs and see what's going on but, don't we use cramfs too? Isn't that more compression?
I have to disagree with you on the beatftpd though. SSH is a drop in replacement for FTP and it doesn't transmit passwords in cleartext across the network. With all of the complaints about multiple wm's/editors/browsers, why include SSH and FTP, especially since FTP's weaknesses are well known and widely exploited. Trying to reclaim space on a desktop distro, the FTP server should be the one to go.
Posted by mikshaw on Jan. 27 2006,01:49
Fluxbox has always had this ability. Simply change the time string in /home/dsl/.fluxbox/init
check the strftime man page for the format:
< http://www.die.net/doc/linux/man/man3/strftime.3.html >
Posted by winux on Jan. 27 2006,07:38Thx Mikshaw, it worksssssssssssssssss!!!.
I just have to replace %I by %H and take away %p. Very simple ... when one know!!!
Actually I asked the question because I expected this choice in the date/time box. But there is another way, as long as we do it once only after the installation, it's fine.
Thx a lot
Posted by daacosta on Jan. 27 2006,10:43
DSL 2.2 live CD looks fantastic and performs great on my Compaq Presario 5000...
I am pleased with the apps that it has and everything...
Posted by winux on Jan. 27 2006,13:04
Don't forget Robert, he's working hard as well!!!!!!!!!
Posted by winux on Jan. 27 2006,13:19Thx for your reply Robert
Actually I've made a confusion, sorry for that . I thought that DSLpanel > kbdconfig was pointing on the right keyboard. But I realized that the philosophy is that it's devoted to changes and it is pointing at the first line of the array: US actually.
When I checked the files you mentioned (actually good to know about this) I realized as well that everything was correct. So I had a doubt and I went to Sylpheed to see what's up ... actually it was fine as well!!!! I should have checked it before, sorry Oops !!
I do apologize for that Robert, but the positive point is that I know where to search now (even inside backup.tar.gz, ultimate check)
Have a nice day Robert, same for all the nice people of this forum
Posted by Sector on Jan. 27 2006,17:46Is USB2 supported for TORAM in this version?
It takes ages to copy the image to ram from my usb pen. It was much quicker with the prewvious version of DSL.
Posted by Guardian on Jan. 27 2006,20:39Well well the new release is here... can´t wait to download it and give it a go, about this dilemma with MC... well, I think making an extra package that one could download/install would be a good idea and everybody would be happy, I don´t use MC myself so often so I guess that could be a solution.
Just my 2 cents.
Posted by clivesay on Jan. 28 2006,13:00Robert, with going back to the 2.4.26 kernel is DSL back to using just 8 cloops? I ask this because I notice there are alot of uci's being submitted to mydsl testing.
Posted by gh78 on Jan. 28 2006,13:22regarding what to keep vs what to get rid of:
Thought I'd chime in, as well.
I would like to keep firefox, get rid of dillo, and reinsert links-hacked [or some console web browser that can use gpm].
I agree that there should be as little duplication as possible, unless you're talking about a console app as the lowend app and an X app as the high end. I would like to see the console supported more. I'd love to see gpm included and working with mc --I don't know how to fix mc myself for gpm.
Also, were you guys aware that mc can browse ftp servers?
regarding window managers:
I think jwm is the smartest choice i've seen. It's lightweight and familiar.[I say, just pick one, and make it work]
I do have to say, I miss seeing the mountapp always on the screen, though. What I'm looking for in a window managers is : left click somewhere gives you a menu.
[touchscreens are usually left click only]
that could be jwm, wmaker [love the menus], or icewm [love the themings]...
Though I have used the card games, they aren't essental.
I wouldn't miss them much, if it was games vs functionality.
it would be nice to have one tiny token game though.I think tetris is a fine choice.
curtis is a 13kb [stripped] console tetris.
< http://www.linux.org/apps/AppId_8886.html >
I just played a fun game of othello, in firefox.
< http://www.lutanho.net/stroke/play.html >
this is probably asking too much, but
If you don't feel comfortable with installing it into the browser, having it on the iso would be real nice. [it is 101 kb, though]
Posted by boko on Jan. 28 2006,13:26Ndiswrapper was working with 2.1 now locking up is this a kernel problem?
Posted by xdesk on Jan. 28 2006,14:40
That are GREAT NEWS !!!
Posted by xdesk on Jan. 28 2006,14:48
I also consider jwm a little more intuitive than fluxbox, however there seem to be a number of problems with other MyDSL applications (most notable mplayer) when using it so ...
Posted by roberts on Jan. 28 2006,17:08
Yes 8 cloops.
With mikshaw's very cool ucitool it is quite manageable and not really an issue.
Posted by Peter DF5IN on Jan. 28 2006,19:09Please consider keeping MC (or re-introduce it in 2.2) !
Its so essential to many users ....
Posted by Peter DF5IN on Jan. 28 2006,19:23
Oh sorry, i have overlooked the posting, that MC is reinserted.
Thank you, and maybe you should consider dropping some games?
Keep up your good work.
Posted by MakodFilu on Jan. 28 2006,21:36I have a tendence to choose a console based application over an X only alternative just in case X won't run on some machine for whatever the reason.
That said, I would choose mc over emelfm... but I don't use any, nor rox, nor any other file manager.
As mc appears that is going to stay in DSL, its userbase shouldn't be worried, but I still have an urge to understand: why mc and not deco (Demos Commander) or any other less heavy alternative?
Posted by starcannon on Jan. 29 2006,09:04
I agree, I like dillo, but its not useable in the widest sense of the word, I *have* to use FF on a majority of websites I use *including this one* because dillo does not support main stream web design.
I hate to say it but if your gonna drop a browser from the base install drop dillo, its just not very handy, if i need a fast lite text browser i got lynx thats perfect for that sorta thing. And i'm diggin FF 1.0.6 an seeing that FF1.5.uci is in the test repository, well i'm gonna have to check it out. That'll open up a whole new world of FF extensions to me.
Anyway theres my .02 on the subject of browsers. in the end i like them both, but i USE firefox, dillo is well just not ready for my primetime yet.
Posted by captainpotato on Jan. 30 2006,02:11As everybody else has a view, I might as well add mine ;)
I'd like to see the Madwifi package as part of the core installation as it's so useful and supports so many wireless cards.
I'd also like Abiword included (although a newer version than in the myDSL repository - the newer versions have grammar checking as well), as it's a proper word processor but not so large.
As for what to remove - if Abiword is there, then GUI text editors aren't so important (and there's nano for console-based editing). With Abiword, there's also the ability to read Word files, so Antiword isn't as important as a core package; the same goes for the spell checker package.
As long as one of FF and Dillo is included, the other can be downloaded. I'd suggest FF 1.5, if only because it's more widely known than Dillo, so any new users won't be put off DSL by not having a known browser. As nice as Dillo is in terms of speed, it just doesn't support all that is needed in a modern browser. I wouldn't object to Links returning, but anybody planning to console web browsing won't be a newbie, so will know how to get it from the myDSL repository anyway. Hell, why not Opera instead - an older version is in the myDSL respository.
As has been mentioned earlier, the games aren't so important, other than for providing a rounded desktop. They are easy enough to download separately anyway, and in any case, games are a personal preference issue, so just let people download what they want when they want it
I'd also like a more complete grub frugal installation script that has all the lilo options, rather than having to run the lilo one first, then the grub one. Even better - a single script that allows the user to choose (or just dump lilo, as grub is much nicer and easier to customise).
Perhaps apt-related packages should be moved to myDSL, as I thought that it was discouraged to install software using this method, so not giving the option immediately ought to encourage users to go down the myDSL path. This, of course, assumes that there are no dependencies that need them.
Also, if DSL is a desktop-oriented distro, are server packages (betaftpd to name one) so necessary in the base installation? I'd have thought that they could be myDSL packages.
Ultimately, with only 50mb it's not possible to do everything, but including a few larger apps that do pretty much everything that an app of that type should is more important than trying to cover every base, IMO. I'd much rather depth than breadth of apps.
There, now that's off my chest... ;)
Posted by doobit on Jan. 31 2006,17:09I know you are going back to the previous kernel, but I noticed that 2.4.32 is out and has many fixes, including a workaround for the nvidia timing problem, and a memory leak. 2.1b is working great on my Toshiba laptop, so I'll probably stick with it there, but use whatever is the latest on other machines.I like having the full compliment of madwifi modules in the module package that Robert built. The 2.4.26 kernel only had the driver and basic connection modules.
Ted seems to work pretty well for me, and if it's smaller than FLwriter was, then leave it in. I like Beaver because it has highlighting built in, and WYSIWYG editing is nice. I can live with EmelFM and/or MC. The later versions of Firefox have the advantage of automatic plugin loading for some plugins such as Flash. It's good to have server packages, even on a desktop, because they make file, and information sharing easy. I think that's is essential in a light OS that is to be customized by the user. The community has done a nice job of preparing packages for DSL-1.5, so that's an advantage to base the newer versions of DSL on.
You can't be all things to all people, but DSL can be almost anything you need in an OS. I would encourage you to stick with your original vision of a light, flexible live CD, and let the documentation catch up to the point where people begin to understand it. I see a lot of newbees who don't yet understand the power of small and fast , and haven't taken the time to learn what I believe is a better operating system. That will take education, which requires clearly written documentation. The forum has become cluttered because they don't want to take the time to search for the answer instead of asking the same questions again and again.
Posted by blimthorpe on Feb. 01 2006,07:31Hi
I dl and burned 22RC1. Here are a problem I think is serious.
IT boots from the CD just fine, but on both of my computers i cannot make a pen drive install. It 'cannot mount sda1 (or sda, sda11 etc.) I tried 3 different Pen drives, all of which worked in 2.1B. I think this is a bug, because 2.1b works fine for this purpose.
On 2.1, when i did the process, it would display information about the USB pendrive. In 2.2RC1 it displays no information, it just goes on to the next item in the script, and then fails.
BTW --- the DSL bargain computer is just awesome --- I got it running today, but can only use 2.1, because of this bug.
Posted by MakodFilu on Feb. 01 2006,11:27I did an USB-HDD and an USB-ZIP Pen Drive install from an USB-ZIP 2.2RC1 pendrive, so 2.2RC1 seems fine. In fact, I have not found any issue with it yet.
Posted by plinej on Feb. 01 2006,13:45blimthorpe, you may have to try the boot cheatcode "noapic". I have to use that parameter on my laptop for any DSL release, besides the one's with the 2.4.31 kernel, for it to recognize any usb connections.
Posted by joer on Feb. 01 2006,18:57Here is my view.
Since the decision was made to go back to 2.4.26 then shouldn't it be called what it is: dsl-1.6?
If the extensions are module specific then wouldn't that make it easy to determine which extensions are for which versions. If we have two versions of dsl-2.x then the module based extensions are going to be confusing? dsl2.0 and 2.1 are 2.4.31 but 2.2 is 2.4.26.
Also, to make dsl a little more newbie friendly, why not start dsl with vga=normal and avoid all the screen hassles, and even start the resolution picker instead of dillo? Wouldn't that help? Especially on older computers which is why we went back to 2.4.26.
Posted by blimthorpe on Feb. 01 2006,20:23
I just made another pen drive from the 2.1 CD, and it works great. But, in the 2.2, it doesn't recognize the Pen drive properly on the same computers. Maybe because the kernel is older, or something. I'll try the cheatcode that another user suggested.
Posted by blimthorpe on Feb. 01 2006,20:26
I will try that. I suspect it is a problem with the older kernel, because I (today) burned a Pen Drive with the 2.1 CD (again) and it works fine, no problems.
Thanks for your input.
Posted by Alex on Feb. 01 2006,20:55I cant get any support for the opl3sa2 soundchip under Alsa in this release - is this to be expected? The configuration for alsa runs differently - missing the option to probe this chip?
Posted by blimthorpe on Feb. 01 2006,21:16
Nope --- that didn't work. With 2.2RC1, my pen drives are just not recognized properly --- i've tried 2 computers -- no luck. Maybe I'll try on a couple more computers, but i really thing that the older kernel is the problem, because 2.1b works perfectly on all the computers.
Posted by Stefan Chirila on Feb. 01 2006,22:03Oh come on guys, who came up with the idea of taking out Midnight Commander anyway ? obviously someone who doesn't use DSL every day, then they'd know how important mc really is.
Please reconsider and put it back.
Posted by blimthorpe on Feb. 02 2006,08:02
I finally managed to burn a 2.2RC1 Pen drive (using a very old Compaq computer) from the Live CD. But, on my toshiba laptop, the pendrive will not boot ... it gets to the DSL screen, and then, CANNOT FIND KNOPPIX directory --- and puts me into a useless shell. 2.1 boots perfectly on the Toshiba, so PLEASE, lets NOT use the older kernel. It may work on older computers, but not as all on my laptop --- it cannot handle USB pen drives properly. I did try the noapic cheat, and the one for turning acpi off as well, but nothing works. I think the older kernel just sucks for the Toshiba laptop (which is very new). Please go back to (at least) the .31 kernel, it works for me, the .24 doesn't.
Posted by ugol on Feb. 02 2006,11:52Hi everybody,
I'm sorry that I've a different point of view with respect to that of Blimthorpe. I'm impatiently waiting for a new version of DSL based on the kernel 2.4.26 in order to make a remastering that some of my students with very old PCs can install from a ZIP disk.
I've already briefly explained my point of view at pag.2 of this forum topic.
However, I think that it is impossible to satisfy all the queries at the same time. I've read that many of us have very different wishes (more compact, less compact, for desktop, for rescue, etc.).
I guess that it means that DSL is expected to generate a few more branches: a splitting between 2.6 and 2.4 kernels is probably a good idea. I don't think that the extremely flexible structure given by myDSL is enough to cover all the needs.
I don't want put more pressure on the developers of the DSL project.
I just suggest to clearly state the strategy of the future releases.
For instance, going back to the 2.4.26 kernel made me very happy, but it was totally unexpected (perhaps also for most of the DSL users). I think that for the supporters of a more updated kernel, it could be enough to know that next release will be with 2.4.31 or 2.4.32.
It's just an opinion.
Posted by MakodFilu on Feb. 02 2006,17:15
Happened to me once, but was not kernel related but Windows corrupting the whole pendrive when trying to access sda2 in my USB-ZIP. Hope that helps.
Posted by blimthorpe on Feb. 02 2006,20:00
The pen drive (with 2.2rc1) WILL boot on another box, so it's not corrupted. It is just NOT recognized on my Toshiba laptop --- won't boot, while the 2.1 version (with the newer kernel) boots fine on the Toshiba. So, It must be related to the older kernel used in 2.2RC1. I hope we don't end up using this older kernel, because I would love to use it on my Toshiba.
Posted by cbagger01 on Feb. 03 2006,04:45Just for the heck of it, try downloading the dsl 2.2rc1 USB boot floppy image (it should be the same as DSL 1.5 USB boot floppy) and see if you can boot your Toshiba using the pendrive and the boot floppy disk.
My suspicion is that you need the USB2.0 driver loaded in order to boot up your Toshiba, so give it a try and see what happens.
Posted by blimthorpe on Feb. 03 2006,07:23
Unfortunately, my Toshiba has no floppy .... Is the USB 2.0 driver part of the kernel used in the 2.1 release ? because that version boots just fine and recognizes all my USB stuff on the Toshiba. I'll just wait and see what the final decision is on the kernel matter --- I really hope that the older kernel is not chosen - that would kill it for me. Thanks for your input.
Posted by hs7sv on Feb. 03 2006,07:41Nowadays, Laptops are using ACPI, not APM. It would be great if DSL 2.2RC2 can support APM and ACPI. Thanks
Posted by Delboy on Feb. 03 2006,11:22My thruppence worth from the point view of setting up DSL in a pretty low spec. machine as a simple homework / study / Amsn tool for my 11 year old son:-
Keep Ted - much more useable and reliable now than FLwriter (appalling) I haven't bothered with Abiword for a while. Any work Word doc.s saved in .rtf and then opened up at home in Ted are fine. Much much quicker.
Lose Firefox - it's memory requirements mean that is is never used on this old machine because it is SO SLOOOW. Dillo is fine for occasional surfing. If I want a serious, long and fast session of web surfing then I would use a much newer machine which would have a different correspondingly bigger OS on it.
Replace Torsmo with the Asmem stack of utilities we had before. They worked.
Emelfm is great but keep MC also. I don't use it but I can see the point.
Jvm window manager is pointless really - unattractive and no benefit over fluxbox. I think it does DSL a disservice.
Xpdf and the graphics viewer work - keep.
Lose VNC viewer and FTP client - do people really use these?
I find Sylpheed really grim - what about a change of e-mail client to something a bit snappier - the bigger Claws version (as Vector 5.1) or better still iScribe. I use this all the time. on Windows.
I am not moaning - DSL is a star which I never fail to tell Windozers about.
Posted by MakodFilu on Feb. 03 2006,11:35Just customize it to your tastes then.
Actually I see one of the point you are making the other way around:
Fluxbox window manager is pointless really - a waste of space and no benefit over jwm.
But I like DSL 2.2RC1 the way it is mostly and I am sure that if I merely seriously *suggest* dropping fluxbox I could not make it out of this forum alive.
Posted by bokaroseani on Feb. 03 2006,23:07I wonder if DSL has hit the ceiling (or at least close to hitting the ceiling) and that no new improvements in it can happen without having to get rid of some of its existing functionality. This is the impression I get from this forum. I would really like to see real improvements in economizing on existing codes to accommodate new functionality (like the GUI mount tool) rather than just try out different combinations of programs in subsequent releases. DSL is probably the best among the smaller distros. Not to offend anyone, I think it should focus itself to catering to people using relatively older machines than to try to satisfy every computer user. If as a group we can focus our efforts into managing the way DSL uses computer resources (RAM in particular) to increase its performance, and let individual users pick and choose their applications from the repository as per their needs, I think we can achieve a distro that will have a wider appeal. I am from India and I see a great potential for use of DSL here where people dont have the luxury of using the latest machines. The life of the hardware can be enhanced drastically by DSL and that should be kept in mind when the key players of this distro sit to rethink and revise the existing "goals" for DSL.
Posted by mikshaw on Feb. 04 2006,02:38I agree with you completely.
Satifying every computer user is easy...just throw in everything.
This is not possible with a 50mb limit and a focus on older hardware. So the only thing to do is to ignore a large part of "add this application" suggestions and concentrate on the base system. Let the users deal with adding apps via mydsl.
Posted by cbagger01 on Feb. 04 2006,06:40DSL 2.1 automatically loaded the USB2 driver, called ehci-hcd at boot time.
DSL 1.5 (and possibly DSL 2.2RC1, I dunno), did not. However, the DSL 1.5 USB BOOT FLOPPY DID autoload the USB2.0 driver.
You can test the theory by doing the following:
1) Using someone else's computer, install DSL 2.2RC1 to your USB drive.
2) Using someone else's computer, create a DSL2.2RC1 boot floppy disk.
3) Using someone else's computer, rename the minirt24.gz file on your USB drive to minirt24.gz.old
4) Using someone else's computer, copy the minirt24.gz file from the floppy disk over to your USB drive.
5) Try your newly modified USB drive in your computer and see if it works.
Otherwise, you may be stuck using DSL 2.1b until the Next Generation DSL-like system that is based on the linux 2.6.x kernel version is released.
Posted by roberts on Feb. 04 2006,07:04This is a release candidate and not a final release.
The USB 2.0 issue was reported at the very beginning of this very long topic. USB 2.0 has been included in the next release candidate, RC2 including a new waitusb option that we will hopefully get some positive feedback for those users with slow usb systems.
Posted by starcannon on Feb. 04 2006,08:26bokaroseani:
I Agree, I love DSL its revitalized my jurassic ware and made it useable AND enjoyable again. Nothing like a brand new shiny mmc-1 366mhz Laptop with 288mb of ram (max it'll take) and a 10gb HDD with an ol' rt2500 wifi card in it. This computer never had it so good. Hell even under windows that it shipped with it was never this responsive. I love DSL and will use it alot on old hardware. I like to build computers for people with no means to buy them and DSL gives me a rock solid and user friendly way of doing that WITHOUT having to use a less than honest copy of some other system. But even if DSL decides to focus on more modern hardware we still have 2.2 that works great on our old hardware, the repository is the only area that seems could be a bit of a juggling act under that scenario, but even then there could be a 2.2 repos and a latest build repos, ultimately I know the dev team will choose well, they did after all bring us this far
3 Cheers for all the people that make DSL a reality
Viva Le' Revolution!
Viva Le' Revolution!
Viva Le' Revolution!
Posted by blimthorpe on Feb. 04 2006,08:34
This worked -- the 22RC1 boots on my Toshiba with the minirt file from the boot floppy. But, it's probably a moot point, since I see that the USB2 driver will be added in the next RC. BTW, the minirt file from the boot floppy is WAY smaller -- is it safe to use when running this from the pendrive ? Thanks for your suggestion
Posted by jedi156 on Feb. 04 2006,23:29In the interest of supporting more and older hardware, I would like to request that the pcmcia drivers be removed from the kernel and the newest stand alone pcmcia_cs drivers be used instead as they also support pci-to-pcmcia that are not CardBus as in the Cirrus Logic CL 6729, Omega Micro 82C092G and others that the kernel drivers do not support. I have no idea how much size difference this would make, but would support more old notebooks like the one I have
Thanks for all your hard work.
Posted by cbagger01 on Feb. 05 2006,05:31The USB bootfloppy minirt contains less boottime driver modules for other devices like SCSI for example, so it will be smaller.
HOWEVER, since you are always booting from a USB device, you don't need most of them during the initial boot process so don't worry about the much smaller minirt file.
Or you can always wait for DSL 2.2RC2
Posted by roberts on Feb. 05 2006,06:02
Isn't that what release candidate testing all about?
It is not intended that RC level versions be for daily/regular use.
The purpose of this topic thread is to provide testing/feedback
Instead this topic has tuned into a microcosm of support and ideas and suggestions.
Posted by blimthorpe on Feb. 05 2006,08:06
My original post in this topic was to report problems booting with Pendrive in 22RC1 --- I had no idea it would get so twisted
Posted by bokaroseani on Feb. 06 2006,03:34From the response to my earlier post I note that some, if not all users of DSL agree with me that later releases of DSL should focus on real improvements and not just trying out new combinations of applications in the base system. In addition, I think it would really help if the MyDSL repository of softwares is updated to include the latest releases.
I am not a programmer. But I am curious if other DSL users will find worthwhile the suggestion of including more cheat codes that can give them greater control over which specific applications get loaded onto RAM (when using 'toram' of course) when booting. I am not sure if this is at all possible. If not cheat codes, are their other ways to control some of the applications not getting loaded on RAM? If not, it seems to me, that would be a good thing to work on the for later releases.
Thanks again to all those who are really doing the hard work behind this successful distro. We as users can only offer suggestions.
Posted by xdesk on Feb. 07 2006,10:36Booting from USB is stil VERY tricky in general (and not only for DSL) so my feeling is that the more testing the better (on as many possible machines / BIOS etc. possible).
However I do not think that on the long term older kernels really need to be used - the latest 2.4.xx is here generally for good reasons ...
But obviously a more usb-friendly minirt.gz (like the one that might have only been on the USB boot floppy) might be a good idea ...