Forum: Release Candidates
Topic: DSL v4.0rc5
started by: roberts
Posted by roberts on Oct. 09 2007,04:13Change log for DSL v4.0rc5
* Updated murgaLua to v0.5.5
* Updated netconfig.lua - support for .filetool.lst and defaults.
* Updated frugal_grub install to prompt for MyDSL, boot options, and langauge options.
* Added 'checkfs' option to grub menu for frugal grub installations.
* Factored out .jwmrc-tray for better user control of tray icon choices.
* Restored busybox link to provide rpm2cpio.
* Added gettime.lua to jwm and fluxbox menus.
* Addded dfmext GUI, add2bootlocal, add2filetool, and add2Xfiletool to jwm and fluxbox menus.
* Fallback to torsmo v.017 supports no swap based systems.
* Fixed HTML errors in "Getting Started"
Posted by roberts on Oct. 09 2007,04:17Files that are likely in your backup: .jwmrc and .fluxbox/menu
Please update these files to reflect the latest changes.
Posted by vilde on Oct. 09 2007,10:34I still have the same problem as before. I can't point the backup to hda2 on a frugal Grub install. If I do that the system hangs and I have to reset/power off. I tried to manually edit /opt/.backup_device to hda2, when I then reboot it stops with the error something like "can't mount hda2". I can manually mount hda2 and create files on it.
I made the hda1 100 mb so there are some space over and it works without problem to make the backup there.
EDITED: After making one directory and one file on hda2 and rebooted the file and directory is gone so there is something wrong with hda2.
I have created hda2 with cfdisk, rebooted, done mkfs -c ext3 /dev/hda2 and rebooted again but it doesn't help.
EDITED 2: It seems like the problem was to small hd (virtual) for ext3, can it be that? I wanted to simulate installing on a 1gb usb flash so hda2 is only like 700mb, maybe ext3 is not working then. It works when I format hda2 to ext2.
Sorry for bothering with this, I let my post be here but if moderator want to take it away it's ok for me.
Posted by roberts on Oct. 09 2007,14:01I would not recommend a journalizing filesystem on a flash device.
It causes many extra writes (wear out the device) and the physical size of the journal it maintains will quickly exhaust the storage capacity.
Posted by vilde on Oct. 09 2007,16:07I really miss the old mounttool
Posted by curaga on Oct. 09 2007,17:23Hey.. Did you clarify checkfs only checks ext2 filesystems?
Posted by wavetel on Oct. 10 2007,13:01Still unable to download Rc5 as yet. The mirrors seem to be conjested and some mirrors are still not updated.
It may be due to the RC5 announcment on the Distrowatch web site that has caused this as the last few Rc releases have not suffered this problem.
Will just wait and see for a day or two I guess. Perhaps RC5 is getting alot more downloads than the other Release candidates it would be good to see the statistics. Perhaps it will get more exposure which could be good as well.
Posted by humpty on Oct. 10 2007,16:03i'm seeing this at boot ;
pauses, but then seems to continue ok.
Posted by roberts on Oct. 10 2007,16:12That looks like it is comming from processing an extension or from the murgaLua upgrade.
Would it be possible for you to narrow down which one?
Posted by roberts on Oct. 10 2007,16:27Nevermind, I found one that I can reproduce this error. Looks like the upgrade to murgaLua v0.5.5.
Be on the look out for any others.
I need to get to work on this.
EDIT: I can't blame it on anything except me. My bad.
Now fixed. Note that it is harmless, just sloppy.
Posted by fuzzybud on Oct. 11 2007,04:27DSL 4.0rc5 on my computer is running at close to 100 percent CPU usage. The lowest usage I saw was 88 percent. My CPU is a Sempron 3000+ with 1 GB of RAM on a Biostar K8M800-M7A motherboard. I checked the md5sum and it is OK. DSL 3.4.4 runs at very low CPU usage on the came computer. The same is true for DSL 3.3 that came with your book. I got it yesterday.
I ran Top and saw that Xvesa shows between 50% and 80% CPU usage. The next hightest is Firefox of course. This is the first time for me trying 4.0 so I can't compare this version with earlier ones.
Posted by roberts on Oct. 12 2007,04:36I don't want to sound dismissive but, it is the first report in five RCs. I cannot reproduce nor I have I seen such. But possible web page demands, possble bad CD burn? Possible conflicting extensions? Only guessing. Try another computer. Try anothe CDROM.
Posted by fuzzybud on Oct. 12 2007,07:49As you suggested I downloaded rc5 again just to be sure I have a good version. It too had a good md5sum. I tried it on the computer with the Sempron CPU and got the same result of maximum CPU usage. Next I took the disk to a little EPIA 5000 I use as a spare. It worked perfectly on that little honey, low CPU usage. So it seems that I have to figure out why rc5 doesn't work on the Sempron when 3.4.4 and 3.3 work fine on it.
I'll see what I come up with tomorrow. I have a spare nVidia card to try instead of the onboard video.
Posted by aesenadorjr on Oct. 12 2007,10:07I've seen this 80-90% usage on high-end CPUs before, and it was always caused by faulty hardware, e.g. shaky mouse ball, sticking keys on keyboard, dying lan card. I just experienced one last week (bad mouse).
Posted by wavetel on Oct. 12 2007,13:39Is it just me or is Vim busted ?? I dont normally use it but accidentally ran Vim up from the Editors menu.. I could not figure out how to get out of Vim and even the F1 help wasn't found. The directory /usr/share/vim is completely missing. I checked the MD5 of my Iso and also verified the CD on burning it so I dont think its my CD. This was using a CD boot of DSL v4 rc5
Posted by roberts on Oct. 12 2007,14:13@fuzzybud, I have no problem with my Sempron 2500+ with 1 GB of RAM so perhaps the issue is as aesenadorjr suggested.
@wavetel, All of my DSL development is using Vim. It is the only editor that I use. No problem.
Posted by mikshaw on Oct. 12 2007,15:39wavetel: Help files for most applications in DSL have been removed to save space for more applications. It is a necessary result of building the most complete system possible within 50mb.
There is almost always documentation available at the developers' websites, in this case vim.org. Please note that DSL's vim is a minimal build, so some documented features are not available.
There are also many places on the web that provide help with the basics of vim; a google search should get you some help quickly.
Press i to enter insert mode to type in the document.
Press Escape to go back to normal command mode.
To exit vim -> :q (in normal mode)
To save the current document and exit vim -> :wq
To quit without saving a modified document -> :q!
To save a document without quitting -> :w or :w filename
Posted by curaga on Oct. 12 2007,15:41Heh, Robert revealed the truth
Now we all know he does have recent hw..
Posted by fuzzybud on Oct. 12 2007,18:04Robert, I will wait for the next version of 4.0 to see how it works on my computer. I looked for rc4 on the net but didn't find it. 3.4.4 works fine so I will use that.
With rc5 everything looks good except for Xvesa. I tried booting with different settings but that didn't help. I changed the keyboard and mouse just on the off chance that it might be something like that. I would change the video from onboard to the spare nVidia 5200 I have but I have Mepis and PC-BSD installed on this computer and have no problems with those two operating systems using excessive CPU. This hard disk has lots of room so I installed Zenwalk 4.8 with no problems. And I ran a few live CDs of other OSes without a problem. I think that would eliminate a hardware problem. I don't really know.
Posted by curaga on Oct. 13 2007,09:17Hey, did you try Xfbdev, the other X server?
Posted by fuzzybud on Oct. 13 2007,21:38Curaga, thanks for the suggestion. I tried many different ways without success. When I tried fb I got a fatal i/o error 104. At the moment I am using dsl 3.4.4 that works perfectly.
I took so long to answer you because I was downloading a torrent of rc4 at the average rate of 1.3 KB/s because my ISP blocks torrents. It took more than ten hours to download DSL-4.0rc4!!! And then when I tried to burn it I got the wrong md5sum. I found another download site that again took more than ten hours and I got another bad md5sum. I am laughing now but not then.
Posted by mikshaw on Oct. 13 2007,21:54There is usually no need to redownload the whole file. You can use wget -c <file_address> to resume an incomplete download regardless of whether you choose a different server. This assumes both are the same file. I do this with every large file I download and so far have not had a problem, even over the course of several sessions and several servers. Firefox often falsely claims a file is complete, and wget can resume those files too.
Posted by Mule on Oct. 14 2007,23:05First of all kudos. DSL is really coming along nicely.
1. The MyDSL Extension dialog seems to have a bug. It works if you use the DSL start menu item and navigate to it. However, I boot from a USB stick and if I browse to "MyDSL app" (on sda1) through the file system and double-click it, I cannot download new appications. I receive a "Non DSL User error." message after being prompted for a download location.
2. I also use a large monitor (1920x1280) - It would be nice but not mandatory to support this resolution.
3. My larger resolution makes it apparent that when speeding up the mouse, the mouse pointer moves a larger number of pixels at a time. This makes it very hard to say, click on a '+' sign in the file browser. Is it possible to have the mouse move a smaller number of pixels the slower it is moved by the user?
4. I love that xpdf is open source. However, it supports such an old version of the Adobe PDF spec that PDF's created with the latest PDF creator software do not always render properly. Is there anything other PDF reader that fits your size requirements and work with more recent PDF specs?
Finally, I have to say I have been a C Windows developer for the last 15 years and of all the fancy linux distributions, DSL is the only one that has made me really WANT to switch. In fact, I'd love to help develop some of the UCI/DSL modules (maybe assist in improving #4 above). Could you please let me know maybe the 'first three resources' I should start reading or studying to get started? Thanks and again, good work.
Posted by roberts on Oct. 14 2007,23:50
Not a bug, but likely a limitation of the filesystem being used. If booted from sda1 then it is owned by user root. With 4.0 need mydsl/ owned by dsl.staff. The 4.0 default usb pendrive installation creates two partitions to handle this. The first larger one owned by dsl.staff and a second smaller partition owned by root.
Get a copy of the Official DSL Book. ;)
The Wiki has much information as well as posting in the mydsl extension area.
Posted by mikshaw on Oct. 15 2007,01:13
Some of my first reactions to DSL 4.0...
The exit options and improved switcher are great. I wonder if switcher.lua might be improved even further by reading in a list of user-installed window managers.
Extra directories in /ramdisk. How does this affect low-ram systems?
Maybe more "Open" options could be available for dfm, such as "edit" as an option for all files. It wouldn't be useful for every file, but would be useful for many files that are currently editable but are only associated with one application.
There seems to be an unused KNOPPIX/tmp symlink.
What is /tmp/.mydsl? It was created when I installed mc, but is an empty file.
The "Help" menu item is good. Maybe this isn't new? I don't remember seeing it before.
On my own build of dfm, I can press Esc to highlight the first desktop icon. From that point I can start typing an arbitrary icon name and focus will be shifted to that icon. This doesn't seem to work in DSL.
Posted by humpty on Oct. 15 2007,13:08During startup/shutdown, the .uci extensions in v2.1b seem to mount and unmount a lot faster than rc4, any reason why?
Is it because of the support for .uncs ?
Posted by roberts on Oct. 15 2007,14:15
Actually gvu uses Mowitz which is quite large and is part of the Siag spreadsheet. This in fact is another app which is under consideration for removal.
As I expressed in "Ideas and Suggestions" I am looking to improve the interface for better support of window managers. This includes removing the extra window managers and make them available as extensions.
Posted by roberts on Oct. 15 2007,14:18
If you wish to emulate the behavior of 2.1b then try booting with the legacy option.
Posted by mikshaw on Oct. 15 2007,14:56
Posted by roberts on Oct. 15 2007,15:36Legacy boot option is still supported in 4.0.
The whole point to go to dfm is drag-n-drop capability.
Most of my recent development is in this area.
Of course one can choose to not run scripts via dfmext and instead associate an edit function. But my point was to make DSL more friendly. I would say since most of DSL is composed of scripts, that the default action should be run and not edit. Since dfmext is in home it becomes a personal preference. However, I would still promote the run action.
4.0 is using .app similar to rox's appRun and currently has a default associated generic icon. This is the area that I am currently looking at to use applicaton specific icons. The generic "open box" icons works well for now. The .app is created if a menu item is available for the extension. Lately some submitted extensions are not including a menu item nor included in a normal path and thus would be more difficult for the use to find them even from an open shell.
Posted by roberts on Oct. 16 2007,03:48Icons are comming, the icons are comming...
Application specific icons are now working in a test cut of v4.0 that I have been working on.
I am surprised how few actual icons are included with the extensions.
Neverless, I have script updated many extensions to add a resized 32x32 .xpm icon. The original 48x48 icon in .xtdesktop remains for continued compatibiliy with DSL 3.x and prior versions.
Now when 4.0 is loading an extension, either at boot up or dynamically a check is made to see if an xpm icon is in /tmp/mydsl.icons and if so the application specific one is used otherwise the fallback generic "open box" icon will be used.
Posted by fuzzybud on Oct. 16 2007,11:27Backing up a few pages, I want to thank aesendadorjr for telling us about hardware failure being the cause of high cpu usage. It happened to me the other day on the EPIA 5000 with the ps2 mouse gone bad. All of a sudden my beautiful little machine gave me a message that the BIOS was broken. I have a second EPIA 5000 computer so swapped machines and got the same message. It wouldn't boot. The screen told me the BIOS was broken. It took a day of testing different things before I discovered the bad mouse. Thanks again, aesenadorjr.
This thread is about 4.0rc5. So on my big computer I will look for a similar cause for why I get high cpu usage on the Sempron CPU. The difference is that on this machine I am able to boot and run Mepis and PC-BSD without any problems. It is a puzzlement for sure.
Posted by curaga on Oct. 16 2007,16:18Hmm.. Robert could you post somewhere a list of apps considered for removal/adding?
Posted by mikshaw on Oct. 16 2007,19:45
Posted by roberts on Oct. 16 2007,20:27
Nothing decided for sure. Just an open discussion. It is something that keeps comming up especially when some apps become less useful, i.e., the xpdf and some would say even firefox. Siag and the heavy Mowitz library is another one.
I likely continue the release candidate cycle to showcase some alternatives and at the same time add better interface for support of alternate window managers. Not a tiny core, but perhaps slimmer.
This is open for further discussion.
Posted by roberts on Oct. 16 2007,20:39@mikshaw
You are correct about xtdesk's support of xpm icons. However, I decided to leave well enough alone. The icons in 3.x and prior use 48x48. It would look very inconsistent to have a mix of 32x32. So for aesthetic reasons I am supporting both.
To support a menuless environment, if an extension creates a menu item, a .app will be created. If the extension has no xpm icon then the default "open box" will be use by association.
The goal of 4.0 is to try to support a menuless drag-n-drop environment in the traditional under 50MB size.
Posted by curaga on Oct. 16 2007,20:54As far as I know, xpdf is the lightest pdf reader available. Unless gv was replacing it?
Which spreadsheet should replace Siag? The cli ones are light, but will not be newbie-friendly..
Posted by florian on Oct. 16 2007,22:46
Hmm, just a though... not sure if this is feasible... would it be possible to get rid of perl? What essential utilities or application requires the perl interpreter?
Posted by roberts on Oct. 16 2007,22:57
Perl: ndiswrapper comes to mind. Over the releases of ndiswrapper their use of perl went from no pms to requiring several.
Posted by mikshaw on Oct. 16 2007,23:42
I haven't looked at your (robert's) code yet, but I plan to make a slight modification to exit.lua. Its current behavior, if you uncheck "backup" and then select "reboot" (or "shutdown" if reboot is already selected), is to automatically re-check "backup". This doesn't seem like a logical behavior, and I assume it will be a minor thing to change.
Posted by roberts on Oct. 17 2007,01:40
I did that by design. Intended to be pesky. Don't want no oops; lost data as no backup.
Posted by mikshaw on Oct. 17 2007,02:28I see.
Well, anyway, I messed with it=o)
Regardless of whether or not you want to encourage the backup, there were two things about the script that I didn't think are necessary. The first (w:callback) I'm not sure about, but the second (backupBtn:callback) I'm pretty sure is a kluge for a bug created by the use of backupBtn:type(). "type" when applied to buttons implies button type, but the type you supplied was a box type. I can't see why this would cause the check button to consistently be "on", but removing the type line stopped it.
Posted by ChiJoan on Oct. 17 2007,05:39I agree about the NAG screen to backup, I knew there was a three-finger salute or two to cure that. But I prefer how Puppy gives you three choices instead.
I came across some old laptops so I'm trying DSL 4.5 on them. Tonight it was the WinBook XL2 with a P2 in it and about 200 MB of RAM. It had no problems so far and I first tried my Dlink NIC PC Card, then I tried the Belkin USB to NIC in the 2-port USB PC Card as I'm typing on it.
DSL saw the sound card, but I didn't hear anything. I'm just happy the old ATI video onboard is supported and that it didn't stall out on the PC Card testing.
If I buy one of your fine books will I be entitled to the corrected info for the newer version 4 or 5 of DSL?
Thanks for DSL,
Posted by Richard (MQ) on Oct. 17 2007,19:27My ancient Toshiba Tecra is now on-line with DSL 4.0-rc5 but without any sound. It worked in M$ win98...
BIOS settings say 'Soundblaster', 0x220, IRQ5, DMA1 so I tried
Is there a lua gui for configuring sound? I can't find anything.
Posted by humpty on Oct. 17 2007,20:59
So let me get this straight, future extension makers catering for
both 4.x and pre-4.x will put a 48x48 icon in .xtdesktop as usual, and add a 32x32 icon in /tmp/mydsl.icons/ ?
Posted by roberts on Oct. 17 2007,21:20
See if this thread helps...
< http://damnsmalllinux.org/cgi-bin....d+sound >
If you decide to try the alsa route then note v4.0 is using the same kernel as v2.1b so try the alsa4dslV2.dsl in the system section of the repository.
Posted by roberts on Oct. 17 2007,21:26
Yes this is correct.
I don't want to keep xtdesktop around anymore, can't go back and change what is out there. Don't want to stop supporting prior versions of DSL. And did not like a mix of 48x48 and 32x32. Afterall, DSL has an image to keep up. ;)
You can easily use the imagemagick extension /opt/imagemagick/bin/convert to resize and retype your images.
Posted by curaga on Oct. 18 2007,13:45For spreadsheet, how would gnu Oleo do? The source is 780k and it uses Motif.
< http://www.gnu.org/software/oleo/oleo1.png >
Haven't tried though, just came across googling..
Posted by kuky on Oct. 19 2007,07:22its needed a menu to add direct-acces,icontools in before vers, because in the case that you have a wireless mouse and keyboard its impossible to drag and copy to desktop the program icons. (you have to type Simultaneously shift in keyboard and click with the mouse with the same wireless channel at least in my pc)
Posted by mikshaw on Oct. 19 2007,14:44
Have you tried a right-click on the desktop? You should be able to create an icon that way.
Posted by roberts on Oct. 19 2007,19:01Mule wrote ...
A much newer Xpdf will be in the next cut.
Posted by roberts on Oct. 20 2007,04:42wavetel wrote way in rc2 thread ...
I hadn't forgotten this. I think I finally got rid of this bug! Getting close to 4.0 final.
Posted by kuky on Oct. 21 2007,21:04thanks mik ...yes i have a bad design wireless kit of mouse and keyboard ..its a present of my bank....
1) with the procedure of drag and copy to the desk the icon program of apps of elemf-su change to a page text ?? and change the personality to no su emelfm
2) the grub menu do not run in windows possition (PANIC TO NEWBES) its necessary to quit * in the windows lines...i think that in last ver 3.4 also occurs the same
3) the rpm2cpio runs but to make a uci iso no, at least in my pc with the line command in opt
mkisofs -R -hide-rr openoffice.bla I create_compressed_fs -65536 > /uci/openoffice.es.uci
its works partially and made a uci file with 0 bytes( i am working in ver 2.3 of openoffice in spanish with dicts and types to send to Argentina to rafael)
before in other vers works fine..who i made wrong...
its necesary to make a test team of dsl-testers with check-works( in dsl.org) to speed the changes, we are running in dsl but ms are flying..
Posted by roberts on Oct. 21 2007,23:37
I cannot reproduce, whether I moved it or copied it (Ctrl) both worked OK.
Posted by Juanito on Oct. 22 2007,03:44
Shouldn't the line be:
Posted by KarlMW on Oct. 22 2007,04:49I wish to compile a patched video driver to use with the 2.4.31 kernel in DSL4.0 - I've found some instructions here < http://damnsmalllinux.org/cgi-bin....2;st=10 >
I'm trying to figure out if the kernel setup is still the same as the 2.4.31 kernel from DSL2.1, found here < ftp://ibiblio.org/pub....ces-2.1 >
Should I proceed with that, or is there some other source I should be looking at?
(background info - I have a T1010 thin client which needs a Geode Framebuffer patch applied. Also, the USB port seems not to work, so I have stripped DSL down to console only so that I can pack it into the initrd and have kernel+initrd fit within the 8Meg internal flash - I've tested it under qemu and all is good - now I need the framebuffer working so I can see what is going on, on the real hardware, and figure out why it's not yet working there...)
Posted by roberts on Oct. 22 2007,05:04Yes. That link is the sources for the kernel in 4.0.
Posted by kuky on Oct. 22 2007,20:47doing by parts , as jack the ripper said
1) the grub menu in dsl hd install have loop to the menu when type windows , there are # in the begin of lines to boot windows its ocurs in rc4.5 and in 3.4.4?
2) the mkisofs runs ok the problem is that i added a file of fonts , i supoused, with no permisions, and the procedure crash , when i erased the file, its work fine..
3)I cannot re- reproduce, whether I moved it or copied it (Ctrl) both worked OK as robert said. when the problem return i will send a post..
i recover the faith in dsl and his apostles mick,robert and juanito..
Posted by roberts on Oct. 22 2007,23:18
There has been no change here.
At the end of a grub bootloader install, you are prompted if windows is in the first partition (/dev/hda1). If answered in the affirmative then the grun menu line is un-commented. Windows will appear in the boot menu.
This is a convience, as most older computers had windows installed in such fashion. Any other installation of Windows is left as an exercise for the user.
Un-comment the windows line and adjust drive partition per your system specs.
Posted by roberts on Oct. 23 2007,19:41It's time. Thanks to all for have taken the time to test and provide ideas suggestions and feedback.