DSL into Debian - how?


Forum: HD Install
Topic: DSL into Debian - how?
started by: vees

Posted by vees on April 12 2006,04:49
The DSL website main page says that DSL
Quote
Transforms into a Debian OS with a traditional hard drive install
.

But how is that really done?  I suppose that the first steps would be

1) a regular HD install
2) enable full GNU
3) enable apt

What then?  How close to Debian can I get?  What are the repositories used?  I suppose that they would be stable Woody - right?  Could I change that to Sarge or Sid?  Has anyone tried this?

Is there a way to tweak DSL into a 'complete' Debian?  Is yes - is there a HOWTO -like step by step guide out there?

Thanks!

Posted by Guest on April 12 2006,15:40
I dont know but easiest way is to install debian, it will save you from many problems.
Posted by mikshaw on April 12 2006,15:47
That's quite true.  If you want a full debian installation, install Debian. You're going to loose most of the benefits you'd get from using DSL anyway, so there's little point in spending all that time converting to a Debian system that is already available for download.
Posted by vees on April 12 2006,18:28
I already have Debian-Sarge running on my main computer.  My point is not 'getting Debian' but finding out I can realize the claim made that DSL installs as Debian.

Besides, having a credit-card size distro in a wallet which can install Debian is something very convenient.  While I do not always have a Debian CD or DVD with me, I always have DSL.

So - how does one install DSL 'as Debian'?!

For example, after enabling apt I could download and isnstall a small utility which checks the amount of non-free software called vrms (-: for "virtual Richard Stallman" :-) but when I tried to apt-get install Abiword I got broken dependencies problems.  That would never happen with a real Debian.  DSL needs tweaking, but it should be doable.

Again - I realize that DSL != Debian and that by fully 'Debianizing' DSL a user would loose DSL-specific qualities.  But since the claim is made smack in the middle of the DSL homepage and since I like to learn how to do things I do not think that it is illegitimate to ask how this can be done.

Posted by mikshaw on April 12 2006,20:57
I see your point.

As far as I know, once you install DSL to harddrive (non-frugal) you have a basic Debian-type system, at least in the sense that the file structure is essentially the same as that in Debian.  I don't know much about apt, so i can't give any definite info there, but I can say that your dependency issues don't mean that DSL can't be expanded into the equivalent of Debian. I've heard at least a few people say they've done it.  As far as I know, you might need to run some other apt commands to update the apt support files, and maybe to upgrade some of your base system files.  What those commands are specifically I forget, as I don't use apt. I'm only saying what I vaguely remember from reading other people's posts.  You will probably find more useful information in the apt-get forum.

opinion: It may be useful to know that installing DSL in this manner is probably not going to be well-supported by the devs or these forums.  The ability to do it was basically already available when DSL was created, so it was included in the install scripts just because it's a possibility.  However, most of the ongoing development focuses almost entirely on the compressed system of liveCD, frugal, embedded, etc.  As far as I understand it, if changes are made that are specific to the liveCD, but cause issues for a traditional install, I doubt that these issues will be on the top of the list of things to fix.

Posted by cbagger01 on April 13 2006,17:22
If your post is to make the point that the "install as Debian" statement on the main web page is misleading, then consider your point made.

DSL is different enough from a standard Debian installation that you will encounter problems when you treat it as a Debian hard drive installation.

First, most of DSL is based on the "oldstable" version of Debian and is out-of-date.
Second, DSL has stripped out many libraries and dependencies that are not needed for the specific apps that are installed in the livecd.  This saves space but makes it difficult to install some software packages from apt-get.

Finally, DSL uses a non-standard (from the Debian perspective) Xwindows server called TinyX/Kdrive/freedesktop.org server, but from the package manager's perspective, it appears like DSL actually has a full XFree86 installation present.

The can cause problems, especially when installing software that affects the Xwindows-related packages and in the case when you try to do an apt-get dist upgrade.

Some people have gotten around these problems by either "forcing" packages to install, or by switching to a newer repository like "testing" instead of "oldstable", but it is not a simple out-of-the-box solution.  Search the forums for instances like these, maybe with keywords like dependencies or apt or dpkg for example.

Posted by vees on April 13 2006,18:34
Quote (cbagger01 @ April 13 2006,13:22)
If your post is to make the point that the "install as Debian" statement on the main web page is misleading, then consider your point made.


Not at all.  If I had thought that this is misleading I would have said it exactly like that.

No - my point was to get somebody more knowledgable than myself (-: which is easy to find as I am relatively new to Debian -based distos :-) to post something like a HOWTO.

I was already aware that DSL is based on an old stable Debian and I did suspect that the X server on DSL is special.  I was totally unaware of the dependencies issues which I still do not fully understand.  Here is why:

When I tried to apt-get abiword I did a apt-get update first. I would have imagined that this would have 'told' apt which dependencies were missing on my DSL computer.  Then apt-get install abiword should have picked up the missing dependencies on the debian old repository.  Obviously, I was wrong (again - I do not claim that I fully understand how apt works).

However, there must be a way to

1) establish which dependencies are missing from the DSL CD.
2) write a script which would fetch and install those basic missing deps to enable apt to 'take over' from there on
3) include this script in the "enable apt-get" script

or

4) write a small HOWTO explaining how this could be done.

Does this make sense or am I missing something here (like complicating factors which I would not be aware of)?

Thanks & kind regards,

VS

Posted by mikshaw on April 13 2006,19:10
Quote (vees @ April 13 2006,14:34)
When I tried to apt-get abiword I did a apt-get update first. I would have imagined that this would have 'told' apt which dependencies were missing on my DSL computer.  Then apt-get install abiword should have picked up the missing dependencies on the debian old repository.  Obviously, I was wrong (again - I do not claim that I fully understand how apt works).

As I stated before, I know very little about apt/dpkg.  However, I think this issue you mentioned may be related to how certain packages were removed.  If they were deleted from the base system manually rather than removed with apt/dpkg, it's possible that apt would think certain libs are still available in the DSL system. This is just speculation.
Posted by Guest on April 13 2006,19:13
http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=05/10/12/1952217

There might be some useful information for you (vees).

Posted by vees on April 14 2006,01:16
Thanks for the great link!

Cheers,

VS

Posted by pr0f3550r on April 16 2006,10:44
To be fair, even a standard Debian upgrade (ie Woody to Sarge), may incur into depenndency problems:
< http://www.debian.org/release....en.html >
Maybe somebody with a PC to spare will try the mentioned steps and see if they applicable to DSL.

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