Frugal installation

Forum: HD Install
Topic: Frugal installation
started by: JohnJS

Posted by JohnJS on Nov. 03 2006,22:53

I guess I'm missing something.
Am trying a frugal installation to my second hard-drive. It has nothing on it. Tried with it formatted through Win2k as NTFS and also Fat32. With DSL 3.0.1 the cfdisk and fdisk show the partition but when I try to run frugal installation I get "Sorry system has not detected a linux partition" error after rebooting.
My system is PII 233mhz.
Everything else works perfectly I even have some extensions downloaded.
DSL is a delight to work.

Posted by roberts on Nov. 04 2006,00:27

Frugal Installs to a Linux partition.
Poormans installs to Windows type partition.

Posted by JohnJS on Nov. 04 2006,00:30

I formatted the drive as linux ie., 83 and 82.

Posted by jimihieu on Nov. 04 2006,15:10

Quote (JohnJS @ Nov. 03 2006,19:30)

I formatted the drive as linux ie., 83 and 82.

what is your fdisk -l output?

Posted by JohnJS on Nov. 04 2006,17:19

Didn't know about mkswap /dev/hdb1.
Now disk hdb2 formatted and files copied from LIVECD.
Installation progressed beyond "do you have windows on /dev/hda" answered "yes" =Grub installed.
On re-booting still starts up with Windows. No sign of Grub.
Tried frugal installation (Grub) again but with the same result, starts up in Windows (2k).

Posted by JohnJS on Nov. 04 2006,17:51

Checking further "Boot/grub" files appear in Emelfm on mnt/hdb2. but does not show up on shutdown and restart.

Posted by JohnJS on Nov. 04 2006,23:01

Now my Windows2k is at a crawl. Restored its performance by removing hardrive (hdb1) dedicated to frugal installation.
Guess I'll stay with LiveCD. It's great.
Thanks for all the responses.

Posted by JohnJS on Nov. 05 2006,04:01

Grub worked on my system when I had SUSE 10.1 installed on my second harddrive. Un-installed it as it was too bloated for my taste. Fixed MBR then with dos disk "fdisk /mbr".
Just wondering why Grub does not want to work with frugal installation of DSL.
Any suggestions?.

Posted by ^thehatsrule^ on Nov. 05 2006,04:33

Either set your BIOS to boot off hdb or physically switch them.

Or install grub to hda.
Or use a bootfloppy/cd/etc.

Posted by JohnJS on Nov. 05 2006,15:11

Thanks T.H.T.
Pardon my ignorance but if I change the bios to boot from hdb will I still be able to use Win2k on drive C?.

"Install Grub to hda" I thought that was in the Frugal script.

"Bootfloppy/cd" would that be the "poormans" install?

Have to keep Win2k until I find alternative Linux programs to replace the ones I have.

Posted by JohnJS on Nov. 05 2006,17:43

Tried "grub-install /dev/hda" but error about cloop and bios missing.
Right now I have progressed to the point of starting with LiveCd and typing " F2 dsl fromhd=dev/hdb2 toram restore=fd0".
hdb1 is swap.
fd0 has my dial-up config.
Very pleased with DSL. Keep up the good work.

Posted by ^thehatsrule^ on Nov. 05 2006,21:12

Well you could point your grub in hdb with a menu item to load windows.

Not sure about your error... could you paste the exact error?
but you could try installing to the mbr on hda and point stage 2 to hdb2.

Posted by JohnJS on Nov. 05 2006,21:48

Thanks "thehatsrule",
Am happy to get this far. New to Linux.
Will try to copy the error msgs the next time I get brave enough to try it.

Posted by JohnJS on Nov. 05 2006,21:59

Tried:
grub-install /dev/hda
get "/dev/cloop does not have any corresponding Bios drive".

Tried grub-install /dev/hda --root-directory=/mnt/hdb2.
Get the same error msg.

Posted by JohnJS on Nov. 05 2006,22:02

Correction:
When I try:
grub-install /dev/hda --root-directory=/mnt/hdb2.
I get "/dev/ram0 does not have any corresponding Bios drive>"

Posted by ^thehatsrule^ on Nov. 06 2006,04:29

Er.. was hdb2 mounted? What's the output of `mount`?

Or maybe your hard drive isn't supported by grub.. you might have to use some extra force switches or lilo.
Did you try changing the drive ordering for boot in your BIOS to see if grub works? No harm in trying. Plus this is probably the easiest solution.

Also, you can edit your posts to avoid double, triple posting.

Posted by JohnJS on Nov. 06 2006,16:24

Switched Bios
result: "grub loading stage 1.5.....
error 22".

mount:
/dev/root on / type ext2(rw)
/dev/shm on /cdrom type tmpfs (ro)
/dev/cloop on /KNOPPIX type iso9660 (ro)
/ramdisk on /ram/disk type tmpfs (rw,size=249536k)
/proc/bus/usb on /proc/bus/usb type usbdevfs (rw,devmode=0666).

Posted by ^thehatsrule^ on Nov. 06 2006,16:31

Quote

22 : "Must load Multiboot kernel before modules"

This error is returned if the module load command is used before loading a Multiboot kernel. It only makes sense in this case anyway, as GRUB has no idea how to communicate the presence of location of such modules to a non-Multiboot-aware kernel.

Not sure what this means, but I'm guessing since you switched the boot order, your bios mightve also switched the listing order (hda vs hdb). Try changing around menu.lst - manual edit the order numbers or try using map.

You could try mounting hdb2 using the mountool or mount /mnt/hdb2 before running it again

Posted by JohnJS on Nov. 08 2006,15:16

Had trouble with Win2k so I dumped it. Now have SUSE 10.1 on my main hd. hda1=swap and hda2+hda3=linux.

Still have the empty second hd=hdb1.
Will I be able to install dsl frugal on it?

Posted by roberts on Nov. 08 2006,16:55

Well, if when you dumped Win2k you could have used frugal to start with DSL, but instead you chose Suse. So, still have pretty much the same situation. Now, depending on what bootloader Suse uses and how comfortable you are with editing it to specify boot from hdb. Your issue is understanding bootloader configurations for accessing non-primary disks. Perhaps, Suse, being a very large distro, has other tools for modifying its bootloader?

Posted by JohnJS on Nov. 08 2006,17:35

"RobertS":
You're Right.
Suse 10.1 is a little buggy. On my PII 233 DSL really flies.
Will remove SUSE and just keep DSL and get some extensions.
I had purchased SUSE two months ago and I thought I'd give it a try.

As a senior citizen(semi-retired) DSL is just perfect.

Appreciate all the work you and John have done to get this to the public.

Doing my bit to promote DSL to my friends.

Posted by ^thehatsrule^ on Nov. 08 2006,17:58

heh, I wouldn't say suse is buggy - but the default configuration for it isn't meant for older systems.

Glad that you're up and running though

Posted by JohnJS on Nov. 09 2006,23:58

Successfully did frugal (lilo) install. So far everything is working fine.
Just noticed on start-up screen I am getting:
"Checking for mydsl apps=ext2 -fs warning. Maximal mount count reached run e2fsck etc".
I ran e2fsck with -p but still receiving that warning.
Is that serious and what should I do.
Thanks.

Posted by JohnJS on Nov. 12 2006,15:05

All is well now. I just re-did the frugal install.
Many thanks for all help rendered.

Posted by The_Prophet_Jonah on Nov. 12 2006,15:31

2K means a NT file system. I understand that NT takes special handling when dual booting. Make it /hdc1 (first drive second controller)?

Posted by The_Prophet_Jonah on Nov. 12 2006,15:38

Quote (JohnJS @ Nov. 05 2006,10:11)

Windows typically sees itself as the only OS on the machine. The NT ones like 2K and XP have a habit of showing your linux partition as "free space" and offer to reformat what it sees as empty space. Check the "Don't show this message again" button in the dialog box.

'

Posted by ^thehatsrule^ on Nov. 13 2006,14:30

He was referring to using the bootloader to be able to boot windows, which can handle it.

btw, win2k can be on vfat as well.

Posted by JohnJS on Nov. 17 2006,18:41

Frustration setting in.
Unable to get Frugal Grub to work.
using Pent II 233mhz 324mb ram.
Win2k on Drive C.
Drive D (10g) formatted to fat32.
cfdisk:
hdb1 type 82 swap 500mb
hdb2 boot type 83 linux 60mb
hdb3 type 83 linux (rest of drive).
mkswap /dev/hdb1
mkfs.ext2 /dev/hdb2
Lilo uses hda only.
Grub to hdb2. Still starts in Win2k on bootup.
Still getting "ext2 -fs warning maximal mount count reached run e2fsck recommended".
Ran e2fsck -p (per menu) but no change.
Where am I going wrong?.

Posted by ^thehatsrule^ on Nov. 17 2006,19:31

What exactly is wrong? that e2fsck message is just a warning, and shouldn't matter.

Posted by roberts on Nov. 17 2006,19:35

When you have multiple drives, it is up to you to install and/or edit bootloaders. As stated before there is no automatic setup for multiple drives. The latest dsl-3.1RC3 does have frugal_lilo now using the partition and not the mbr. If your machine suports booting from 2nd, 3rd drive by marked active partition then try that. Otherwise you will have to install and setup grub or other bootloaders for your particular multidrive setup. Bottom line, your question is how to setup grub in a multidrive setup.

Posted by JohnJS on Nov. 17 2006,20:11

Thanks for replies.

That e2fsck warning made me think I had done something incorrectly.

Re GRUB, I was going by how it worked when I had SUSE 10.1 coexisting with my WindowsOS.
SUSE was too much for my old puter.

Will try roberts' suggestion.

Posted by The_Prophet_Jonah on Nov. 18 2006,17:59

Quote (JohnJS @ Nov. 05 2006,10:11)

That one sounds a lot like my newest adventure. I got M.E. to boot by changing the boot order in bios. Only use it occasionally anyhow.
Changed the boot order back to boot my linux installations from grub.

Grub lists Dos as an option, but doesn't actually boot it.

So I got tired of mucking about with it and just change BIOS settings on those rare occasions when i use winblows.

Oh and 2000 is an NT file system, not win32.

It has a menu driven bootloader called ntldr.
You can allegedly load Linux with that.

Posted by The_Prophet_Jonah on Nov. 18 2006,18:05

By the way, I tried to do a good job of making a HowTo type post, in HD Install, just a few minutes ago.

Might be worth a look, and some of the gurus and near-gurus might be able to find and correct any flaws in the narrative.

In a world without walls or fences, there would be no need for Windows or Gates.

There is a newer version coming out, allegedly going to be ALMOST as secure as Unix and derivatives.

Only problems would be, it would only run on virtually new computers, it costs more than a boxed set of SuSe or Fedora, or any other linux distro. ...

and you have to bow before Bill Gates, kiss his ...ahem.."ring"... and swear undying eternal fealty to Microsux.

Posted by roberts on Nov. 19 2006,00:37

As I have stated previously, its all about boot loaders. If you have a simple setup then the automatic script is all that is needed.

But if you have a complex setup of multiple disks and multiple operating systems then there is another option for your consideration.

The GAG Graphical Boot Manager. It may not be as complete as GRUB or Lilo but it seems to be much easier to install and configure.

For Linux type systems, it demands Lilo be installed in the partition and not in the MBR.

The latest dsl-3.1RC3 has a new frugal_lilo.sh script and it installs into the target partition and not the master boot record.

I will be adjusting the hard drive installation lilo option to also install into the partition and not MBR. Then this will give us another choice. This will be in dsl-3.1RC4 which will be out very soon now.

I am testing various setups now.

< http://gag.sourceforge.net/ >

Posted by The_Prophet_Jonah on Nov. 19 2006,04:12

ok just downloaded that one. I'll try it on a floppy boot later on this evening. I got three other puters to get running, but none of them have the multiple OS booting,
Type at you tomorrow with my success story or tale of woe.

Posted by The_Prophet_Jonah on Nov. 19 2006,04:17

The GAG one that is. I thought about downloading the spanish language one, but thought to myself (as I so often do) self, better not push my luck....

Posted by JohnJS on Nov. 19 2006,15:09

Success.
Now have frugal (lilo) installed.
Decided to just use one harddrive only.
No problems at all.
Many thanks for all the replies.