Pros & cons of HD Install
Forum: HD Install
Topic: Pros & cons of HD Install
started by: cooler
Posted by cooler on Jan. 17 2005,14:55
Can you tell me some pros & cons of HD install? Do you have good or bad experiences? What are your observations on that issue?
Posted by clivesay on Jan. 17 2005,16:03
To quote ke4nt (I think).....HD install = evil! 
After about a month and half with a frugal install, I have to agree with him.
I strongly suggest a Frugal HD install of DSL. It gives you almost an 'unbreakable' system. Of course there is no warranty if you pull your HD out and beat it with a hammer but short of that it is pretty good.
You are running the filesystem compressed so it is read only but with the lilo bootloader and the automated backup/restore option, you don't feel like you are running your run of the mill Knoppix poorman's install. I run mine with a persistent "home" directory on a seperate partion (Actually it is a /home/dsl/MyDocuments/ dir). You can search the howto's for how I set mine up. This allows you to run frugal and save a ton of data without loading it into your ramdisk. I basically create three partitions. One for the image, one for the persistent /home and one for swap. I am guessing some future frugal enhancements will automate things like persistent /home but currently I use bootlocal.sh to add the functionality.
The secret is finding all the config files you need to add to filetool.lst for backup/restore. Once you do that, you are all set. I use my frugal and have multiple users for things like ftp and it works flawlessly.
As you can tell, I am a big fan of frugal.
Chris
Posted by swatthatfly on Jan. 17 2005,16:05
I can only give you the cons, since I wasn't able to install it on my older PII at all. The hd freezes whe I try to partition it from within DSL, even though I already have a working Red Hat install on it, with valid partitions. It doesn't work even if I try to use the existing partitions. I would very much like to be able to use it without the cd-rom, but what can I say. I have tried many things for about 3 weeks, but to no avail, and this forum hasn't helped one bit. Good luck, I think I willl go back to Knoppix.
Posted by cooler on Jan. 17 2005,23:32
Another thing: if I have it on HD and I wanna get something, say a game, can I get it off that game's site or do I have to use the myDSL depository?Would I install that normally or do I need to do it differently than usual?
Posted by ke4nt1 on Jan. 18 2005,00:09
cooler: There are a number of ways that files may be available at other sites.
Some are binaries, some are sources, others are .deb. or .rpm packages.
Each one is handled by you differently in ANY linux distro.
The repository files are designed to be easy to install into the dsl filesystem.
Being a LiveCD - compressed filesystem environment, it differs slightly from other distros.
These files take the pain out of trying to get a program to run in your DSL,
by not having to search and deal with dependancy issues, or menu/icon needs.
Everything that is contributed to the repository came from.. ...somewhere...
Mostly apt-get .debs, converted .rpm's, or binaries that run as-is.
They are similar to what you'll find elsewhere...
Making them run in DSL can be challenging, but a blast when you succeed.
Even better, package them up, and share them with the rest of us at DSL.
Getting back to the main thread, having an environment that is easily restored,
and not easily corruptable is prefered for me when working with files from
"other sites" , so , like Clivesay, I also run from the liveCD/poorman's/frugal installs,
and favor those over a HDInstall.
I could give many reasons for not having a HDinstall,
and many advantages to having a different type install in service.
DSL shines with it's remastering tools and flexibility,
and the typical mindset to installing to HD limits you greatly.
A new DSL will be arriving soon, usually every 3-4 weeks..
So, what are you going to do with that HDInstall?
I'll copy a file or two from the new .iso, and reboot into my
NEW DSL distro with all of my bookmarks, mail, themes,
backgrounds, and settings for my hardware intact and ready-to-go.
73
ke4nt
Posted by noclobber on Jan. 20 2005,19:41
Ahhh (light bulb goes off). Perhaps I have been taking the wrong approach to HD installs. So far, I've been doing the standard HD install of DSL, after which I add in extra apps, customize the desktop icons, wallpaper, etc. until I get everything the way I want it, then remaster from that to install on other machines.I've certainly learned a lot about remastering
and the DSL boot process, but my approach begs the obvious question: What do you do when a newer/better version of DSL is released? Start over from scratch?When I first joined the forums, I recall reading something about putting things you want backed up into filetool.lst, but I was (and still am) somewhat confused about how that works, thinking that all files in a frugal install would be read-only, or, being on a RAM disk, would be lost after shutdown.
If I could do a frugal install, then add in some extra apps & games, customize my desktop, and make all my changes permanent, that would be great. Then if I could just plop in the KNOPPIX file when a new version of DSL is released and still have all my old settings stick, that would really rock!
I've downloaded DSL 0.9.2 this week (gotta see how you guys got Firefox in there
), so I'd like to try a frugal install while adding in some extras like Samba server and Wolfenstein 3D.Looks like I'll be searching the HOW-TOs for frugal install & backup/restore details.
Posted by clivesay on Jan. 20 2005,20:21
noclobber -Just remember that running frugal is almost just like running from the CD from a system resources standpoint. Any additional apps you install are loaded to ramdisk so you wouldn't want a bunch of extensions to load at boot. You might put your essential .dsl's on the root of the partition and place your other's in the /optional folder just like creating a mydsl CD. If you did that, then updating to the latest DSL version would be a breeze.
Filetool.lst is really for storing config files and not complete applications. So your desktop settings can most definitely be saved there.
There are many different ways to handle frugal and I am guessing that roberts probably has some frugal enhancements on the horizon.
Chris
Posted by ke4nt1 on Jan. 20 2005,22:12
| Quote |
| Ahhh (light bulb goes off). |
| Quote |
| Perhaps I have been taking the wrong approach to HD installs. |
| Quote |
| until I get everything the way I want it, then remaster from that to install on other machines. |
learning remastering techniques.
| Quote |
| What do you do when a newer/better version of DSL is released? Start over from scratch? |
- Three BIG points for noclobber!
| Quote |
| If I could do a frugal install, then add in some extra apps & games, customize my desktop, and make all my changes permanent, that would be great. Then if I could just plop in the KNOPPIX file when a new version of DSL is released and still have all my old settings stick, that would really rock! |
Not only does the frugal/poormans method of HDInstall make for easy upgrades, it also does quite nearly bulletproof your filesystem from idiot mistakes like I make all the time!
Don't like that new app, or find it sucks or misbehaves?
Whatta'ya do with your dedicated HDinstall? Ditch it?? - All that WORK!, all that sweet tweaking! That Look-n-Feel! ..
You could go try to pull out all the pieces? (A new Gimp may have 2200+ files..?? )
What if it ran update-modules, or update-fonts, or ldconfig? Then what? ... Anyone interested in full metal backups?
Forget all that *&%# mess!
Use a frugal/poormans install, and simply restart your machine..
I like to run multiple installs, not just one dedicated install. Sure, I can setup lilo to boot from a bunch of standard installs,
but then when 0.9.x arrives, boy, what to do NOW? With the frugal/poormans, I can upgrade some or all of em' ..
I have one DSL setup on hda2 - it's mydsl and backup is on hdb2.. It's just for extension building
- other than dpkg and gnu-utils, it's virtually a pristine build of the latest DSL.
Great for testing those new received extensions ! Make SURE they run with a booted LiveCD, and little else..
I have another DSL setup with my Gaming packages. It's on hda3 - with mydsl and backup on hdb3..
It's got Xfree86 and nvidia, boatloads of game extensions,
All tweaked up sweet as you please, and looks/plays great!
Another area to test those needy/greedy 3D game extensions! I usually spend my time here...
I have another DSL setup on hda4 - mydsl and backup on hdb4.. This one is for working with sources..
Not pristine like the first one, but minimally installed with all the gcc, kernelsources, gnu-utils, etc..
I have every file in this one listed in a list, for diff comparison before/after compiles and installs.
It is backed up to a rather LARGE backup.tar.gz, which nearly overwrites EVERY file in DSL,
but restores wonderfully from errors with massive failed compiles, bad libs, major filesystem changes, etc.
I could make many more..
They all boot from most any DSL CD disk or floppy, LILO optional, ( beats trying to recover from the dreaded LI or 999999 errors )
And I load them all TORAM at boottime. ( excellent speed and performance ) ..
There are many, many more features that could be discussed
here that benefit frugal/poormans installs..
For example, what happens when you take your extensions and
a copy of your backup, rename it zzwhatever, and then add them to
your next run of the mkmydsl?
Now you 've got a bootable CD , just like you like it !
Install THAT frugal/poormans to your HD, and keep building it up!
I hope my persistance in this method of running DSL sways
a few of you from the usual " dsl-hdinstall " maneuver..
I expect this method of operation will only continue to improve..
73
ke4nt
Posted by Caspar_s on Jan. 20 2005,22:55
And that's one reason I like DSL... I don't know what I am doing.... so it is easy to mess something up when trying stuff - and with DSL on a USB key or frugal Hd install (or the cd, although that seems slower to me) just reboot and it goes back how it was and you can figure out what you did wrong.You have all the apps you want in optional directory (or just on the hdd someplace) and click on them when you want to - no problems like I have just had in windows where one thing installed messed up media player so I had to uninstall the other one. DSL files (apps?) are only installed once you click on them - they can't affect anything else.
Hmm, on a related note - can you uninstall a dsl? By quitting X? Logging out or something? (besides rebooting obviously)
Posted by aveline on Feb. 14 2005,08:52
explain somewhere how you do this all ke4nt an maybe i'll try it as i just got thru making 2 hdd installs of Harakunix & DSL respectively tonight. Problem was if i chose the "multiple accounts" install option DSL puked. :\ it sucked... an i dunno why..? Anyway...is there a place to get info on how you're doing what you're doing?aveline