Posting this from a newly Frugalled laptop
Forum: HD Install
Topic: Posting this from a newly Frugalled laptop
started by: SomeGuyWithDSL
Posted by SomeGuyWithDSL on July 14 2005,23:28
Whew, I made it this far.I've sucessfully "frugalled" my NEC Ready 120LT. Specs (in case they are important later) are: Cyrix MediaGX 200MHz processor, 128 MB RAM, 20.0 GB HD partitioned as 1 gig hda1 (KNOPPIX), 1 gig hda2 swap, and 18 gig hda3 persistent home and opt. Network adapter is an NEC NWL-100A (Atheros 5400G) PC Card.
I specified hda3 as the location of mydsl, as well.
I'm working on developing my understanding of how a "dynamic installation" like this works and I'm still not sure on a few points. I've read through the other big frugal thread and am still left hanging on a few things.
1. I can see that there is a backup.tar.gz file on my hda3 that I assume is created at shutdown and contains only those files specified in filetool.lst. When DSL starts, are the actual contents of that file loaded into the ramdisk or are only symlinks created? That is, if I have 4 gigs of persistent data, what exactly happens to it at startup and shutdown?
2. What exactly do I do with MyDSL files in a frugal scenario? I have successfully downloaded them and installed them from /tmp, and they go away at restart. It's supposed to be that way, I understand. So what do I do with it when I want to KEEP it, then? Where should I download the files, since I did specify hda3 as the mydsl location?
3. Where do I save my stuff? If I type a text document and want it to be there next time I startup without having to specifically add it to filetool.lst, where should I save it? Is that what /home is for? Dang it, where's My Documents!!!
4. On my tiny little 640x480 screen, windows often open larger than my screen. Dillo is a perfect example. Every single time I launch Dillo, I have to Alt+drag just to get to the corners or the maximize button. How do I set a default launch size for things, and have it remembered after a restart?
5. When I click on a category, such as "Games," in MyDSL, it takes a verrrrry long time for the next window to appear. 3-5 minutes, usually. Nothing else on the system is running even remotely slowly, what could be causing a delay right there?
Sorry if these are terribly easy questions, but I haven't quite wrapped my head around this yet. Thanks.
Posted by spotslayer on July 15 2005,00:19
I can help with a couple of those. Once you have your .dsl files move them to /mnt/hda3/optional. I beleive that is your persistant directory. You will have to create the /optional. Then these .dsl will show up in your menu. If you want the .dsl to load during os load put them in the root of /mnt/hda3/. I think they should load then.To save your docs create a directory in your home folder and add that folder to your filetool.lst file. It should then be saved.
I'm still tryin' to figure some of this stuff out myself so I could have screwed some of this up.
David
Posted by mikshaw on July 15 2005,03:11
1. the backup.tar.gz file is extracted into ramdisk. If you have 4gb of data it's best to set up a persistent home or opt and store it there.2. put the mydsl packages in the root of your frugal install to have them load automatically. The root would be the same directory that contains the boot and KNOPPIX directories (the partition specified as root in your bootloader). An alternative is to set a mydsl=blah boot option, where you can specify a partition or a particular subdirectory.
3. /home/dsl is your personal directory, just like "My Documents" in Windows. The default is located in ramdisk, so if you are not using a persistent home, or a backup of some kind, the contents will vanish when you reboot.
4. In Fluxbox stable, window sizes depend on individual applications. Some can be set to a particular size, and some may not have that ability. Read the documentation for an application to find out how to do it (Google.com/linux will quickly point you to home pages of most applications). Sometimes it can be set in a configuration file (rc file), which can then be added to your backup. Others may use commandline parameters. In this case you might be able to create aliases in .bashrc, which can also be added to backup.
5. First thing i'd consider is perhaps you're running low on ram. Is your swap partition being used at all?
Posted by cbagger01 on July 15 2005,03:13
Here is some help on the 640x480 issues:< http://damnsmalllinux.org/cgi-bin....80+xbox >
Posted by SomeGuyWithDSL on July 15 2005,03:38
Thanks to everyone's answers so far. mikshaw, I'm still confused, though,as it seems I'm missing some fundamentals that you have grasped.| Quote |
| 1. the backup.tar.gz file is extracted into ramdisk. If you have 4gb of data it's best to set up a persistent home or opt and store it there. |
| Quote |
| 3. /home/dsl is your personal directory, just like "My Documents" in Windows. The default is located in ramdisk, so if you are not using a persistent home, or a backup of some kind, the contents will vanish when you reboot. |
OK, what IS the backup.tar.gz? I thought it WAS somehow my home and opt getting archived at shutdown and restored into RAM at startup, thereby making them "persistent."
This is where I start to get lost. I did specify hda3 as the location for my persistent home and opt, but don't see anything in hda3 except backup.tar.gz.
The home and opt I DO see seem to be in a ramdisk, but why? And are they really? Files that are stored there but listed in filetool.lst are saved somewhere at shutdown. What exactly is happening?
Furthermore, I don't seem to be able to write anything directly to hda3, like it's somehow tied to the ramdisk that isn't really a ramdisk ... or something like that.
I think that's my sticky point now.
| Quote |
| 5. First thing i'd consider is perhaps you're running low on ram. Is your swap partition being used at all? |
Does the "100%" in the Slit display next to the swap size indicate full usage, or full availability?
Thanks again, everyone, for your answers ... don't give up on me yet!
Posted by cbagger01 on July 15 2005,03:49
Persistent home and opt are a different concept than the backup.tar.gzThe persistent home or opt is a writable area on your hard drive that contains the contents of your /home or /opt directories so they are located on your hard drive instead of your ramdisk
The backup/restore process is a script that creates a backup.tar.gz archive file that contains all of the files that you are saving in your /home/dsl/.filetool.lst except for anything excluded from saving in /home/dsl/.xfiletool.lst
So you can backup and restore just about any file that you choose. Not only files that are located inside /home or /opt
So if you are using backup/restore AND persistent home, then you are backing up your files into the backup.tar.gz archive and you are also restoring the files upon bootup. But of course your /home directory is not located in a ramdisk so it must be overwriting the persistent files upon restore.
Also, the 100% means "100% free" , not "100% fully used"
Posted by SomeGuyWithDSL on July 15 2005,03:58
OK, so the filetool.lst and backup.tar.gz work in tandem, backing up and restoring specified files from the ramdisk. Got it.And that's separate from the concept of persistent home and opt. Got it.
**EDITED** Waaaait a minute ... I just looked back through the frugal installation script and realized it never asked anything about defining persistent home or opt directories ... only default backup/restore and mydsl locations. Looks like I need to look through the forums and find out how to do that. No wonder I was so confusticated. Thanks!!!
Posted by mikshaw on July 15 2005,04:31
EDIT: I didn't see the second page when i posted this =opThe backup.tar.gz is your backup archive, which generally does get rebuilt during shutdown and extracted during boot. However, it is not the entire contents of home and opt. It contains only the files listed in filetool.lst.
If your home and opt are in ramdisk, then they are not persistent. Maybe you specified the partition incorrectly. It should be "home=hda3" and "opt=hda3". If you put "home=/dev/hda3" I'm guessing it will fail.
If the persistent home and opt fail, you'll end up with the directories in /ramdisk, as is the default setup. In this case hda3 will not be mounted, and you won't be able to write to it until it is mounted.
I'm pretty sure the 100% is what is available, but i'm sleepy, so can't remember exactly. In any case, if it's displaying a swap partition i assume it is available, so that probably isn't the problem. It could be the 200mhz processor, but more likely is something else...maybe the video device?
Posted by SomeGuyWithDSL on July 15 2005,13:09
| Quote |
| It should be "home=hda3" and "opt=hda3". If you put "home=/dev/hda3" I'm guessing it will fail. If the persistent home and opt fail, you'll end up with the directories in /ramdisk, as is the default setup. In this case hda3 will not be mounted, and you won't be able to write to it until it is mounted. |
THANK YOU ALL!!! I guess I need to start over, as I now see that the backup/restore scheme and persistent home and opt are somewhat redundant. I can't think of anything outside of home and opt that would need to be restored at startup, with the exception of some pieces of .dsl packages ... and those are loaded automatically if I put them in hda3.
Thanks again to all of you that answered, you really helped. Now I can come back after getting it to work and answer questions for others that are in my shoes.
| Quote |
| In any case, if it's displaying a swap partition i assume it is available, so that probably isn't the problem. It could be the 200mhz processor, but more likely is something else...maybe the video device? |
Well, like I said ... nothing else is slow. Dillo runs great, and I assume it demands more out of the network device and system in general than the MyDSL browser. I am reinstalling in a few minutes, maybe it will mysteriously disappear then. Thanks again!
Posted by adssse on July 15 2005,13:34
| Quote (SomeGuyWithDSL @ July 14 2005,19:28) |
| 5. When I click on a category, such as "Games," in MyDSL, it takes a verrrrry long time for the next window to appear. 3-5 minutes, usually. Nothing else on the system is running even remotely slowly, what could be causing a delay right there? |
I also find that this happens to me sometimes. For me it seems to be the first time that I go to use it. I guess I have never had the patience to wait and see how long it would take to finish I usually just kill it and do it again. The second time it seems to work in a timely manner. I dont have any clue as to why it may do this. Just thought I would let you know it happens to me too sometimes.
By the way I have learned about some details that I was still fuzzy on, thanks all.
Posted by mikshaw on July 15 2005,14:42
With a persistent home/opt a backup could be useful. As with a backup in any system, if something goes wrong during a day's work, you have that backup with which to help fix things.I understand what you're saying, though. I use persistent home and opt, and haven't bothered with the backup/restore system in several months. It's just much simpler to have everything already in place.
Posted by SomeGuyWithDSL on July 15 2005,15:07
OK, I've created a persistent home and opt now on hda3. They DO still appear in the ramdisk, but any changes made there immediately affect the equivalent file on hda3. I guess they're not REALLY loaded in ram, then?
Posted by SomeGuyWithDSL on July 15 2005,21:06
| Quote (adssse @ July 15 2005,09:34) | ||
I also find that this happens to me sometimes. For me it seems to be the first time that I go to use it. I guess I have never had the patience to wait and see how long it would take to finish I usually just kill it and do it again. The second time it seems to work in a timely manner. I dont have any clue as to why it may do this. Just thought I would let you know it happens to me too sometimes. By the way I have learned about some details that I was still fuzzy on, thanks all. |
adssse, are you using a wireless card? I swapped out my Atheros card in favor of a wired D-Link 10/100 card today and the problem doesn't happen any longer. I still don't know exactly why it happened, but it went away when I went "wired."
Posted by mgmont on July 16 2005,02:45
I think you are right, SomeGuyWithDSL. I have the same problem when using my laptop with wireless but I don't when wired. However I put up with it because I can set in my recliner (where there is no convenient way to go wired) and use my laptop. '
'
Posted by adssse on July 16 2005,04:25
Hmm I have this symptom on both my laptop (wireless) and my old desktop (wired). When I pick a category, such as net, wmnet shows just a little bit of net activity for a second and than... nothing. Like I said at this point I usually just kill it and relaunch without problems.
Posted by ke4nt1 on July 16 2005,04:42
I'm curious what happens if you first connect to the internetusing firefox, then try using the myDSL app.
Sometimes, I have seen, when first hitting the desktop,
that if I try to connect to a website with dillo, I see some DNS errors.
( no connection )..
But, If I use firefox first, which always works on the first try,
then I can go back, and retry dillo, and it works too..
It's like, something in firefox kickstarts DNS.
Then all is well from there.. Maybe polling for proxies, or something?
Perhaps we need more than simply ' pump -i eth0(wlan0)(ath0) '
to get our DNS info from DHCP up and working??
Test and feedback..
73
ke4nt
Posted by adssse on July 16 2005,05:01
Thanks for the reply ke4nt1.I tried a little test to try and verify your theory.
I first rebooted to have everything fresh. I opened up the mydsl browser and chose gtk2. Got just a little bit of net activity for a second and than nothing. So I than killed it and relaunched with success.
Rebooted again, this time ran firefox like you suggested and than closed it. Than opened up the mydsl browser and chose gtk2. This time it worked well right off the bat.
So it seems to me that you are on to something.
Posted by roberts on July 16 2005,09:35
mydsl browser is using wget for all net activity. There has been several threads concerning wget and proxy issues. If proxy is being used then could be that Firefox may establish it better than wget, at least initially.