Need advice: choice between 2 laptops
Forum: Laptops
Topic: Need advice: choice between 2 laptops
started by: WoofyDugfock
Posted by WoofyDugfock on April 28 2005,18:35
Really hope I can draw on the collective intelligence in the forum on this. I've found two new cheap bottom-end laptops that actually boot DSL (a lot don't, cheatcodes or no). Which to get (if any)? I gave up looking for months after getting pissed off with non-knoppix-booting Amilos and HP AMDs, despite the urgency - I NEED one for my main machine & don't have easy access to the stores.1. IBM Thinkpad R50e 30G/256M DVDROM CD-RW 15" TFT Celeron M330 1.4Ghz. Sound card is Intel Corp l82801DB AC '97 Audio Controller driver =i810_audio, detected during boot OK.
Boots no cheat codes. USB pendrive seen no problem. Sharp clear display - looks good. No obvious from-USB boot in BIOS boot sequence settings. Two issues:
a) Sound not working - as below.
b) "Can't locate module block-major 2" message during boot - is this important?
And it's got no touchpad - only that awful un-ergonomic nipple thing in the middle of the keyboard that IBM insists is a good idea - hurts my fingers. But it's light and solid IBM build quality. (I notice the Linux Journal staffers seem to favour the IBM T40 laptop ..)
2. Acer Aspire 1414 WLMI 15.4" WXGA WFT 40G/512M DVD+/-RW. 802.11b/g. Celeron M350 1.3 Ghz i think. Sound card is Intel Corp something AC '97 Audio Controller. Touchpad. A LOT of goodies for the cash, only slightly more $ than the IBM but more of everything. Heavyish and thick, though not so when compared to the mega laptops.
Boots DSL no cheatcodes once BIOS set to boot from CD. USB stick seen OK. Two issues:
a) sndconfig run within X reported an error. Soundcard seen during boot ok but not working?
b) Display is rather stretched sideways to fit the widescreen, and dsl desktop is nowhere near as sharp & crisp as IBM above.
What if I get hold of a cheap 17-19" monitor and drive it with one of these for off the road...
I know this is the same old same old, but what boot codes should I try? Can the Acer sharpness/stretching issue be fixed/improved? Any other opinions?
Thanks for any comments!
WDf
Posted by cbagger01 on April 28 2005,21:43
Generally speaking, if all things are nearly equal, you should get the IBM.Historically, IBM has built quality laptops in the past for business use. I don't have a lot of experience with their home user laptops but I would hope that the build quality is still good.
As for sound, you might be able to get sound working if you use the alsadebs.dsl extension and follow the instructions in the *.info file.
Posted by Caspar_s on April 29 2005,02:53
Also take a mouse if you don't like the "nipple"You can get a lot of neat small mice now - and a big one is no problem either.
Does xsetup let you select another resolution (wider) Cause that may be why it doesn't look too good.
Posted by WoofyDugfock on April 29 2005,13:22
Thx v much for the responses. I'll try alsadebs.dsl. But I don't really know how to go about optimising the resolution settings for the Acer WXGA...There's < this > post, but how do I apply that to the Acer?
- Do I just do fb1280 x 800 at the boot prompt (which I think is the stated resolution for the Acer screen) and see if it looks any better? Or ... what other numbers ..how do I know?
- Do I use Xfree86.dsl, and, if so, how where and what?
While you're probably right that the IBM is most likely the better build, the Acer is very tempting with its extra bang for buck. But if dsl is going to look less than crisp on its screen then that's a BIG negative.
Posted by noordinaryspider on April 30 2005,14:15
Thanks for the post, Woofy; it helps me too since I've always used desktops and didn't have a clue what to look for in a laptop.
Posted by WoofyDugfock on May 07 2005,11:14
Glad my post was of use.As for my last questions - OK search the forums etc, right? So I have. Here are the results of my googling for general information.
I suppose I'd be right in concluding that widescreens are almost unknown territory as far as DSL goes?
I did find < this > on the "linux on laptops" site if it helps anybody, which includes XFree86 configuration information. Looks like something of an unpredictable, difficult hack and definitely not for me right now. Also, it's hard to tell sometimes exactly what the install reports mean by it "works". I don't think I'm in the mood to f*k around with hardware issues when paying out for a new machine.
As much as I love linux, this must be one of those issues to which Jason Perlow in Linux Journal is referring when he says that configuration of stuff in linux has to become a "no brainer" to enable widespread adoption, not an obscure hack with some "half baked script" only for those in the know.
In short I lean back towards the IBM. No dvd+/-rw, awful unergonomic nipple thing, unattractive but tough IBM body, and -worst of all - no widescreen movies in my crappy hotel room when I'm away (sigh)......
There's also a detailed report of debian/knoppix (hence dsl) on the IBM R50e< here > claiming almost everything works out of the box EXCEPT eg wlan and the modem - I think he has fixes for these. Also I can't seem to see if it's the same Celery chip as what I'm looking at though - the r50e is also available with Pentium M/centrino.
Another link re Debian on R50 is < here > and appears to be the same page as a link that has gone dead on linux on laptops.
There's also a < webring > and < mail list > dedicated to linux on Thinkpads, so there's probably no shortage of places to seek assistance.
EDIT: Just found < this > outfit in Australia ship the Celeron r50e with a choice of a just about any linux distro you can think of preinstalled (also a < French mob > offering dual boot r50e Celeron. There's even one in Romania .....) And a "Keylabs linux compatibility" test certification report < here >
So all in all the r50e Celeron appears to be eminently doable with dsl.
Posted by sega01 on May 07 2005,19:50
well... there are a couple problems with both... both laptops are running off of p3 era celerons which if im correct maxed out at 1.2 ghtz, so inorder to make them faster than that they have to be overclocked, which generally isnt too great in a laptop.as far as brands go, ive never been pleased with ibm they've never gotten there bios right. i rember about 20% of the computer had a "keyboard lockup screen" at my ibm infested school.
i think that acer is a japanese brand which generally tend to be a bit better, i would go for the acer even tho it has the widescreen
Posted by spotslayer on May 07 2005,22:27
I am a thinkpad believer. I currently own two of the pentium II gender. Both are rugged and have been long lasting. Both work with dsl cdrom and a pen drive with a boot disk. To old for self boot. I will buy another one if the oppertunity arises.David
Posted by WoofyDugfock on May 08 2005,12:06
Thanks v much to you both for the feedback and for bearing with my thinking-out-loud.As far as both laptops having unremarkable crunchy salad processors, I guess I accept that's all you get for the low price tag. I would have thought, though, that dsl running toram would decide it's the space shuttle taking off on one of these, as opposed to being rooted and green. I'm used to running dsl toram on a p3 ~860Mhz desktop with lots of RAM, on which it seems fast indeed.
From < here >:
| Quote |
| ...bear in mind that the cheapest processor you can buy new today is plenty fast enough for Linux. So if dropping back a speed level or two brings you in under budget, you can do it with no regrets. |
This same guy also says that front side bus and disk I/0 are far more important than the processor itself for linux. Both laptops are supposed to have 400Mhz FSB. I'm still very green about the ears (probably the testicles as well) about such things -- is this ok?
It seems that the < beef > with Celeron M's is their 512kB cache (still better than the early ones) and lack of Speedstep. I note the posters < here > seem to see no noticeable performance difference as compared to the desktop Celeron D 2.6-2.8 in non-intensive type applications (still Celery) but one says the mobile AthlonXP will "whoop" the Celeron 330.
I imagine the hd seek times are poor though - haven't tried to find out about this yet.
But if Celeron is a particularly bad piece of vegetable for the $, then please let me know ....
I recall seeing other complaints about the big blue BIOS elsewhere, but neither that nor the vegetable seems to deter these commercial outfits from shipping them with linux.
There seems to be a consensus that IBM laptops are generally physically among the most durable around (their hinge design in particular is strong, apparently).
I'd still prefer a widescreen though (to be honest, only for movies) if I could be convinced dsl could be made to look sharp on it.
According to linux on laptops, you < fix > the horizontal stretching (part of the problem with the Acer 1414) by increasing the horizontal frame length etc etc, which means changing some timing numbers in Xconfig.
No-one has any experience of this type of adjustment?