Best old laptop to buy for DSL
Forum: Laptops
Topic: Best old laptop to buy for DSL
started by: Livewire Confusion
Posted by Livewire Confusion on Aug. 08 2005,19:26
I recently found out about Damn Small Linux and would like to play with it.I have been toying with the idea of buying a used old laptop specifically for this purpose. However, I am a “noob” and I don't really want to deal with any install hassles. I would like to download the CD Image, burn it, insert it into the CD-ROM drive and install it without any config file editing. I need to learn how to use Linux; but I would rather spend my time being productive.
I just need something where all the hardware has drivers and works from boot.
I would like this laptop to have a networking card (10/100 or 10BaseT), Modem (33.6KBPS or better) CD-ROM (bootable preferably but I know how to use RaWrite to make boot disks if I have to) 12" to 14" Screen Size, PCMCIA. (USB Would is nice but it's not a must because I can always buy a PCMCIA USB Card.)
I really don't want to spend more than €150. And if this laptop's hardware is cheap to replace all the better (e.g. batteries for around €30 new...)
Any success stories you have or recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks. Extra points for links!
Posted by adssse on Aug. 08 2005,20:29
This is the old lappy I bought off ebay a while back. I forgot how much I paid for it but it was pretty cheap and I have had very little trouble with it. It pretty much worked without any configuration except to use the boot code 'dsl vga=788' so I could see the bottom line of text when booting. I couldnt find a good link for it but here are some of the specs I found on the web.IBM 1171-330 - Thinkpad i1300, 500Mhz Cel, 64Mb, 6Gb, 12.1" SVGA, 24x CD, AC Adapter, Battery
Posted by kopsis on Aug. 09 2005,05:25
You might need to adjust your expectations. First off, to be "productive" in Linux a little config file editing is generally a "must". Tweaking things in a textual config file is no more difficult than navigating the forest of checkboxes and select lists in a GUI config utility -- especially with the helpful folks in this forum to back you up 
.Second, even installing Windows on an old laptop is hardly a "one click" affair. Laptops are non-standard by nature so getting all the built in hardware to work is most likely to take a small bit of manual intervention. In particular, internal modems are likely to be trouble and power management support (especially on newer machines) can be sketchy.
Rather than look for a laptop with no issues, you may be better off to look for one with well understood issues. To that end, a number of IBM Thinkpad models are good choices. I've had success with an IBM 600e but it does not have built in ethernet and required some manual config to get the sound card working (which is well documented in posts here).
Posted by green on Aug. 09 2005,14:38
I would agree on the 600eI use a pcmcia ethernet card for network access, although it has built in modem that i do not use.
The sound issue is not an issue with the proper command syntax. As stated, it is well documented in the forums.
The 600e should be fairly cheap. Mine is 363Mhz, 196Mb RAM, 6Gb HD, and DSL screams on that thing.
Posted by wetterau on Aug. 09 2005,15:16
I agree about the Thinkpad 600e. We have bought three of them from www.betros.com, very fair price, 30 day guarantee. Perfect for DSL. The keyboard and display are great and the laptop is very well built. You should use an external modem if you need one. The USB is 1.1. The battery usually needs replacement. It would be best to get a CD-RW rather than just a CD-R drive. A solid buy.
Posted by Livewire Confusion on Aug. 09 2005,15:44
Thanks for all the input. I guess what I mean to say was that I wanted to pick a laptop where ALL the hardware inside it was supported, including the modem. I know that most manufacturers use winmodems nowadays, but didn't manufacturers used to put hardware modems inside laptops? All great suggestions by the way please keep the comments coming.
wetterau: How much do the replacement batteries cost?
Posted by Livewire Confusion on Aug. 09 2005,15:58
no laptops for sale at www.betros.com they are "closed for the summer" 
I will look around for them on eBay. However, I would like a model with an internal modem that that DSL supports.
Posted by kopsis on Aug. 09 2005,16:14
You have to get pretty ancient to get standard "hayes compatible" built-in modems. You'll probably lose USB (and I'll be surprised if you can get a PCMCIA to USB card to plug-and-play with DSL) and you'll likely be stuck with old 16-bit PCMCIA (no CardBus which eliminates many wired and wireless ethernet cards). You'll also be severly limiting you max RAM which (contrary to popular belief) is far more important to performance than CPU speed.As for the 600e, DSL actually *does* include a driver (originally open sourced by IBM) for the built-in MWave modem in the 600e. I've loaded the driver without errors but I've never been able to test it (no landline -- just broadband and cell phones) so I have no idea if it really works or how much manual configuration is necessary. Perhaps someone else has tried it?
Another plus of the 600e is that power management actually works! If you first eject any PCMCIA cards, the sleep, suspend, and hibernate to disk functions work flawlessly with DSL. I even have a thinkpad.dsl extension that lets you control many of the power management settings in the BIOS without the need to boot Windows or DOS (however it doesn't have a nice graphical interface). Batteries (I just replaced mine) can be had on EBay for under $30 (retail they're around $100) and running "toram" with a wifi card and surfing the net I can easily get three hours of battery life.
Posted by Livewire Confusion on Aug. 09 2005,16:54
sounds good kopsis, I am sold on the 600e so far. How does the install go? Does the install probe your video card and configure X windows for you? Are in booted directly into FluxBox?
Posted by Livewire Confusion on Aug. 09 2005,17:03
and does it automatically install everything other than the internal modem? Kopis WHAT 600e do you have?
Posted by green on Aug. 09 2005,19:16
on my 600e everything works as desired except the sound, which is easily fixable. Yes, it boots straight into flux. I did not have to tweak anything to have a usable and productive experience. Then I wanted sound. Did that. Then I wanted XFree86. Did that. Then I wanted..... er, sorry, getting carried away.At any rate, if you end up with a 600e, post back in the forums and we'll help you get your sound going.
For your browsing pleasure, check this out:
Look here to find your $120 600e.
< http://www.retrobox.com/rbwww/home/search_results_pc_laptops.asp >
Posted by kopsis on Aug. 09 2005,19:43
On my 600e I can boot from Live CD directly into a Fluxbox desktop and everything is properly configured except sound and the modem. You need to specify a boot option for the display depth or colors will be a bit psychadelic (though still readable for the most part). I don't remember the exact option but if no one else does I'll dig it up for you. I now have the box set up to use the XFree86 DSL extension instead of the standard Xfbdev or Xvesa servers to get accelerated video and that works quite well. I should probably write a little 600e DSL howto and post things like my XFree86 config file.I can dig up my exact 600e model # for you tonight. I don't actually know what the differences are between the various 600e model numbers but there certainly are a bunch of them! If you go the 600e route get one with as much RAM as you can. They all have 32MB on the mainboard plus two expansion slots that can take up to 128MB each (144 pin PC66 or PC100 SODIMM) for a total of 288MB. I started with 128MB (32 + 64 + 32) but I've upped that to 228MB (32 + 64 + 128) and I'm much happier
Running DSL with the "toram" option it's hard to believe that it's only a 300+MHz PII
Posted by Livewire Confusion on Aug. 09 2005,20:14
All sounds real good. Thanks for the link green; I will most likely buy from them. I don't have much patience for eBay.I did a google search and found on IBM's site that the modem for 600e was not supported under linux. So I am thinking is that the mwave thing you are talking about may only work with certain models. It looks like big blue made about a million different 600e models. Do you have a link to that mwave driver?
Also, I would like to thank everyone here you have been real helpful and not snarky at all, yet another sure sign I have chosen the right distro! Good community on here.
Posted by green on Aug. 09 2005,20:45
DSL rocks. Of that, there is no doubt.Also, those of us who use 600e's like them and have been there and done that.
There are several 600e users around here on the forums. You'll see them creep out of the woodwork like roaches from time to time.
I also have an IBM T21. The sound works outta the box on that one, just in case you want something more. I tripple boot the T21 with XP Pro, Red Hat, and of course DSL. However, Red Hat is slower than XP Pro, but adequate. Go figure. DSL is a screamer.... but you knew that...
Good luck with what ever you decide to do.
Posted by kopsis on Aug. 10 2005,03:08
From what I can tell, all the 600e and 600x Thinkpads used the MWave 3780i DSP for their built-in modems. There's a complete HOWTO for using this modem in Linux at < http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-mini/ACP-Modem.html >. It looks a little involved and possibly out of date, but the fact that the driver is still in the 2.6.10 kernel source leads me to believe that it can be made to work. If I ever find myself near an analog phone line with a couple hours to kill I'll have to see if I can make the modem work.BTW my 600e is a model 2645-4AU ... not that I have the slightest idea how the 600e model numbers work