Questions about DSL and a REALLY Old Laptop
Forum: Laptops
Topic: Questions about DSL and a REALLY Old Laptop
started by: Goober
Posted by Goober on Sep. 16 2005,22:43
Hello,I am getting my hands on a really, REALLY old Laptop. I am talking like 12Mb of RAM, 500Mb Hardrive, that old. I, being a Linux fan, want to install a Linux OS that will work fairly fast on it. I have Ubuntu on my desktop, but that is just too big for this Laptop, so I was pointed to DSL.
Now, I am currently - scratch that, I just downloaded the "dsl-1.5.iso". Since this Laptop doesn't have a USB port, I can't throw it on my little USB Memory Stick. Should I burn the ISO to a CD, and proceed to install it from there?
And how user-friendly is DSL? Is there a Howto that I should read first somewhere, or is it fairly straight-forward?
Thanks in advance!
Goober.
Posted by adssse on Sep. 17 2005,04:20
I would just burn the iso to a cd. I am not sure if or how well X will run with 12mb ram. I believe the min for X is 16mb, but its worth a shot. It should at least run in CLI. As far as how user friendly it is, I think it is fairly easy to use, especially since you already have linux experience. For more info, check out the wiki.< http://damnsmalllinux.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page >
Posted by sarah on Sep. 17 2005,04:21
I'm interested in your project, as I'm about to try the same thing myself, except that I don't have access to a CD-ROM for the laptop I'll be using, although I'm now the proud owner of a parallel zip drive ;)You might find the following links helpful:
< http://damnsmalllinux.org/wiki/index.php/Installing_to_the_Hard_Disk >
< http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/dsl-hd-install.html >
I've used DSL a couple of times before, and it booted from CD no trouble at all, but I don't know (yet) about running it on atticware.
Posted by Goober on Sep. 17 2005,04:21
Er, what do you mean by "X"?If DSL1.5 doesn't run, then I shall just try something else . . . perhaps an older version of DSL?
Thanks for the Links, Sarah. When I start trying to install DSL, they might come in handy.
Posted by sarah on Sep. 17 2005,04:33
Just out of curiosity, what is the machine you are trying to install on (make and model etc?)There used to be a story on the dsl site about a couple of guys who booted DSL onto a 486 machine, so I reckon if it can be done on that... (hence I'm trying it with the laptop I've got)
Posted by adssse on Sep. 17 2005,04:40
By X I just meant the gui. Sorry, I should have explained better.
Posted by SaidinUnleashed on Sep. 17 2005,04:50
You might try BasicLinux on something that lightweight.< http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/baslinux/ >
I use it on a 486 with good results.
Posted by Goober on Sep. 17 2005,04:56
It is a 75Mhz Laptop with 12Mb RAM, and a 580Mb HDD. The only reason I'm getting it is that I am buying Win98 (a legal version) from someone I know, and he is throwing in the Laptop as well, which works, and IO want to see if I can get Linux to work on it, but a lightweight version. DSL seems the most lightweight. I don't know anything more other then it is a Toshiba Satellite 100CS, and the above specs.
Posted by Goober on Sep. 17 2005,05:10
| Quote (SaidinUnleashed @ Sep. 17 2005,00:50) |
| You might try BasicLinux on something that lightweight. < http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/baslinux/ > I use it on a 486 with good results. |
Hrm, yes, I shall try that as well if my first two options, DSL being the first, Puppy Linux being the second fail. Basic seems like it will install on this Laptop guaranteed, but seems, well, kinda basic. I do want SOME programs, lol.
I didn't realize just how many Linux Distributions there are . . .
Posted by sarah on Sep. 17 2005,08:48
Heh, I'm also trying for installation onto a toshiba 100CS. I've got 16 MB RAM and a 512MB HD. Windows 95 boots on the machine as is, but I figured this is probably a good way to learn about Linux. I thought I was the only one silly enough to bother with atticware, and I'm kind of relieved(?) to discover that I'm not. ;)
Posted by Goober on Sep. 17 2005,15:36
Huh, that's a coincidence. The one I am getting is supposed to have Windows 98 installed, so I have serious questions as to how well Win98 runs on something, well, this old. Yours has a small HDD but less RAM 
That extra 4 Mb of RAM might be the different bewtween DSL and no DSL for me, lol.I have Ubuntu on my Desktop, but I am 100% sure that it won't work on this Laptop. Simply too big. And ya, best way to learn about Linux, for me, was to pop in my Ubuntu CD I got for free somewhere. Of course, at the time, some nasty virus or something had consumed my MBR for Lunch, so XP didn't work, so I didn't have a choice, but that's besides the point. Anyway, I'm getting it on monday, let's keep each other Updated!
Posted by palloco on Sep. 17 2005,16:30
W98SE ran fine on a 486 DX4 75 Mhz with 16 Mb RAM. It needed 200 Mb but you can reduce it a lot by erasing unnecesary components
Posted by davide on Sep. 17 2005,21:46
you can try using dsl or puppylinux, as for linux distributions.there are more lightweight distributions, but if you want to have a distro that looks like win, then you cannot use a text based distribution.
with 12M ram I don't really think you'll be able to use win98. As for dsl..
I don't seem to rememeber of anyone that posted here saying that he/she is running dsl with such poor ram. P75 is ok, it's just a ram problem.
It's worth trying, anyhow. Of course you must set up a swap partition before installing, of at least the double in size of the ram. So it must be at least 24M. I would put 36M.
X, Xserver, Gui are words referred to the part of software that lets you use the mouse and interact with the desktop and some objects on it, like in winblos. without this, you can only use the OS at a text level, like it was in dos, i.e. That is powerfull, but very unconfortable for most people.
As for how many distros: there are hundreds, at least. You can start you check here:
< linux.org >
gook luck
Posted by cbagger01 on Sep. 19 2005,05:49
16MB = good enough to boot DSL and install it.Make sure that you create a Linux swap partition or DOS swap file during the installation. A 64MB swap size is recommended.
12MB = good enough to boot DSL in text mode (console looks like an old MSDOS prompt) without graphics, see the extremely low ram boot bunch of cheatcodes listed on the DSL wiki page.
For 12MB of RAM, I am not sure if it is possible to boot DSL in graphical mode even WITH a swap file. Even if it is possible, the end results will probably be unusable.
You will probably run into the same problem with Puppy Linux.
A special install of Basic Linux is probably your best choice, short of buying more RAM.
Posted by sarah on Sep. 19 2005,14:31
Well, just a quick update before bed - I got the machine to boot from a floppy and the Zipdisk, well sort of. I'm pleased enough that it booted from floppy and recognised the zip drive to boot from it. Unfortunately, I got seg faults which I have no idea what to do with, so I need to do more research, but I'm happy that I got that far.
I tried selecting run levels, but it told me there were no processes left
I might give a proper account of the errors tomorrow if I have 5 minutes.
Posted by sarah on Sep. 19 2005,23:51
Found this elsewhere on the board: < http://damnsmalllinux.org/cgi-bin....79;st=0 >
Although he has different specs, I think that itīs worth a look as from the quick read I had last night, his problem solving method outlines stuff to try.
Also, I didnīt know about the mem= switch so that kind of information might come in useful for other learners like me.
Posted by Goober on Sep. 20 2005,06:00
Well, I got the laptop, it works fine (except that the battery is giving me trouble, that that can be easily fixed), and surprisingly, Windows 98 works fast on it. Of course, there is like nothing installed . . . Anyway, I am trying to get Linux installed, but, well, I have the HD space, in fact, when I figure out how to get Linux working, preferably DSL, I will just wipe out Win98, and have it as a Linux-only machine. Anyway, my problem is that I don't have a USB port OR a CD Rom Drive on it, so I am not sure how to actually install DSL onto it, unless I can fit it magically onto a Floppy, or magically connect my Desktop to it. It does have a port for a keyboard/mouse, and I did hear from a friend that I could get a cable to convert that a USB port, and then I can use my Memory Stick to put on DSL, but I am not sure.
So, sarah, how did you manage to get DSL on it? 50Mb ain't fitting on a floppy, I figure. And my machine is a 16Mb, btw, the guy i bought it from was mistaken.
BTW, I am quite a noob at this. My only Linux experience has been with Ubuntu, and that was, well, pretty damn easy. I just stuck in the CD, and followed the easy instructions, and everything worked perfectly. So I will need help from you DSLers.
Ok, one more Edit. One thing that is confusing me is that PCMCIA card. sarah, you mentioned it, and others, but I don't understand what it does. Can I get one with a USB port, or CDROM drive? If so, do they sell them at a local Computer Store? I have never heard of this before . . .
Posted by sarah on Sep. 20 2005,11:53
I'm not exactly an expert either, but I can tell you my best guesses? And you're right about Ubuntu, that was easy as pie to install, and I don't even cook very well. ;)I have a parallel port zip drive which I bought for about AU$15 + postage (I'm in country Australia) on eBay. You could try running the install from a parallel CD Rom drive perhaps. I am thinking because of the age of our hardware, it is quite likely that the laptop will refuse to boot a USB port on a PCMCIA card even with a floppy boot disk to tell it to do so without having to do some work/research into how to do it. I'm really inexperienced, so probably there is a way to do it, I just don't know it yet ;) I don't have a USB port PCMCIA card, only one for my LAN connection, and I don't know if that will work yet (it may not even be Linux compatible, but time will tell).
As for a PCMCIA card, it's a serial card you can slide into your laptop to add extra functions to your laptop. I would suggest that you are probably best off investing in an ethernet card, and if you're careful with the type and shape of your card, you *might* be able to fit another one in with it, but it's going to take a little fore-thought since the manufacturers didn't seem to think of these things. There are a few different types of card, and your machine will fit 2 type II cards, or one type III card.
< http://www.pcmcia.org/about.htm >
< http://www.pcmcia.org/faq.html >
< http://www.answers.com/main....=1512_1 >
You might also be interested in the following 2 links:
< http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/1996_02/pr0101.htm >
< http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/1996_02/e0101/e0101.htm >
That last link is a link to the specs of the machine - I'm sure you'll be pleased to know yours is above spec ;)
Another link you might / I find helpful is this one:
< http://dirk.eddelbuettel.com/t100cs.html >
It's not a DSL install, but I've referred to it a couple of times while I've been doing my homework, and so I wondered if you might also find it useful.
He used to have a copy of his XF86 configuration file up, but the link is broken. I am sure I have a copy of it somewhere...
Posted by Goober on Sep. 20 2005,23:43
Huh, what a coincidence that we are essentially trying to install the same Linux OS on the same Laptop . . . I think ours have the exact same stats, actually . . . it didn't hit me until now that we are trying to do the same thing.Anyway. I now understand what a PCMCIA card is. Now, I guess the next question is how do we get DSL, physically, onto the Laptop? You mentioned a ZIP Drive, I guess you bought a PCMCIA Card that had a ZIP drive on it? Doing a bit of research, that will work, we can get DSL, which is 50Mb, onto a ZIP Drive, which seems to be 100+Mb in size. Ethernet would work, I guess, but then, how would that help us install DSL? Once we get the DSL on the HD, then what? i guess we would cross that bridge when we got there . . .
I have heard from folks at the Ubuntu Forum that USB netowkring and Linux don't get along well together, although Ubuntu automatically recognized my USB Memory Stick, I am not sure that DSL would necessarily would do the same. SO maybe Ethernet would be the best step . . .
I also found that article, but then got confused, and went onto the next Google hit
Anyway, I need to find out the price of getting a PCMCIA Card, preferably Ethernet. And a battery, mine, well, let's just say that its the original battery, and it doesn't work. I'll keep you informed as to progress on my end. We will succeed!
Well, I was looking for a challenge, and here we are. Ubuntu was just too easy, eh?
Posted by sarah on Sep. 20 2005,23:51
Really quickly before I head off to work, the zip drive is a parallel drive - that is it plugs into the port on the back where you would most often plug in a printer on this type of machine. I can so far make the DSL boot floppy recognise the zip drive, and it starts uncompressing ok. You'll need to use at *least* the vga=normal switch.After that I'm getting huge seg faults, nothing unusual. More later, but I'm late for work sorry!
Posted by Goober on Sep. 20 2005,23:54
Just to update, i phoned the only computer store in town that I will go to (had bad experiences at non-local Computer Stores), and, well, they say I have to bring it it, so me and the 100CS will go downtown, and see what we can find out about getting a PCMCIA Ethernet Card, maybe, for this thing.Anyway, next question - if I get Ethernet working, would I just DL DSL onto the Laptop and install it? Also, if I downloaded it to my Windows system, how would I install it?
(The techie I talked to said that Ethernet sounds like the easiest solution for this little project.)
Posted by sarah on Sep. 21 2005,05:05
Yeah, I would guess that's the case, but I like the challenge of trying to do it from floppy and zip. Of course, there's always the other option of pulling the hard drive out of the 100CS and plugging it into a better-specced laptop to get it onto the 100CS HDD, or even using an IDE adapter (they're not expensive) and plugging it into your desktop machine, but that seemed like cheating to me. You could do a poor man's install - as far as I understand, it's something like this: (I'm going to assume that you have a desktop machine you'll be transferring from)
- Boot into Windows on the latop
- Over the network find your desktop machine and then the DSL CD or DSL image that you will be using - I think it would be better still to copy the file listed below from the CD to the desktop's HDD, and check the md5sums and then transfer that file from there.
- Copy the \KNOPPIX\KNOPPIX file from the CD to c:\KNOPPIX\KNOPPIX
(This is case sensitive - it must be in caps on your HDD) That's probably going to take a while, unless you know tricks I don't.
- I would take the time to check the md5sums of the files before going any further, since if you still have trouble booting the image, it would be better to be able to eliminate the possibility that something broke during the transfer from the outset.
- Create your boot floppy on your desktop system (I also used a new floppy for that)
- Shutdown the laptop and put the floppy in, and boot it up. You will most likely find that the laptop will pause (or stall!?) for a looooooong time after POST (mine does), before it nabs the floppy and boots from there. You'll need to use the DSL boot options / cheat codes to make it work too.
The instructions found at:
< http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/wiki....tall%29 >
might also help you.
As a side note, Toms Root 'n' boot is a really great little disk you can use to partition your hard drive if you're prepared to risk your windows install. I've partitioned mine using the fdisk utility found on the tomsrbt disk, but I'm lucky enough to have a HDD which was spare and is sort of recognised by the 100CS, and it's still only ~500MB ;o)
See < http://www.toms.net/rb/ > and the faq there for instructions. :o)
I'm at lunch, and just typed all that out because for some strange reason thought that would be easier than STFW and linking ;o) I'm probably wrong.
If you need help with the md5sums, you'll have to search for it sorry because I'm out of time ;o)
Posted by sarah on Sep. 21 2005,05:11
On creating Boot floppies: (You're going to need one to start out with)< http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/wiki/index.php/Boot_Floppies >
The DSL Wiki and these boards are your/our friends ;o)
Posted by Goober on Sep. 21 2005,16:56
Ok, lots of information all at once, lol. I still need to get a PCMCIA Card to put anything on the Laptop. I will probably get 2 Type II cards, one Ethernet so I can DL stuff onto it, and one with more Memory. Too bad that the HD wasn't bigger, for if I got more Memory, I could almost run Ubuntu off that . . . Erm, ya, those instructions will probably be useful once I get a PCMCIA Card, and once my HW loads clears up to give me time to do that. Bloody School . . .
Posted by Goober on Sep. 22 2005,04:38
Ok, i see what you are saying sarah, having arrived home from school, and actually read your post and links. Ya, that will work, I think, but I'm, frankly, not understanding the bit about the Network Card. Like, would I actually network to my computer, and then fine the image through my Laptop? Or could I get an Ethernet Card, download the DSL Image to the HD directly from the 'net to the Laptop, bybassing my Desktop completely, and then use the Boot Floppy, which I need to find time to make, to boot into the Laptop? Or do I have no idea what I am talking about, lol"?I do have one thing that is bothering me, though, how do I enter the BIOS for the Toshiba? I press DEL on my Desktop to Enter BIOS, but it doesn't seem to work for the Laptop. Probably because Win98 starts loading so fast . . . but is it DEL for the Laptop, or something else?
Posted by SaidinUnleashed on Sep. 22 2005,05:09
1. download the iso. 2. use winrar or 7zip to unpack it to the root dir of your hdd. google to find these if you need to
3. use < Rawwrite for Windows > to make the boot floppy
4. use the fromhd=hda1 cheatcode to make DSL boot from the unpacked iso image.
You now have what we call a "Poorman's Install" (I call it a Ghetto Frugal Install)
-J.P.
Posted by sarah on Sep. 23 2005,12:01
Ok, I'm going to give that a bash over this weekend (lucky for me it's a long one). Thank you for the advice.
Posted by sarah on Sep. 28 2005,00:18
Goober - take heart, it can be done, because I did it. Unfortunately, problems with the board last night (my time) meant that I lost the instructions that I posted on what exactly I did, but I'll write it out later.I'm not running it with Windows, but it is running, though I need to adjust the things that start with the window manager I think and make a bigger swap partition and see if that helps.
Posted by Q4U on Sep. 30 2005,14:27
So happy I found this thread...I want to install DSL on a Jurassic Samsung lappy I salvaged from my attic to give to a young member of the family (32Kb RAM, 4 Gb HDD, broken CDROM and floppy, no modem and no NIC).
I managed to install a PCMCIA modem and a Freecom PCMCIA CD RW under Windows 98 (currently installed).
My question: how can I install it, given that I have nothing to boot the lappy from, other than the HDD? Loadlin perhaps? Or I just have to rip the HDD out, put it in a modern laptop and install from there?
Thanks.
PS Atticware... hilarious and very appropriate name, sarah
Posted by AwPhuch on Sep. 30 2005,15:52
| Quote (Guest @ Sep. 30 2005,10:27) |
| So happy I found this thread... I want to install DSL on a Jurassic Samsung lappy I salvaged from my attic to give to a young member of the family (32Kb RAM, 4 Gb HDD, broken CDROM and floppy, no modem and no NIC). I managed to install a PCMCIA modem and a Freecom PCMCIA CD RW under Windows 98 (currently installed). My question: how can I install it, given that I have nothing to boot the lappy from, other than the HDD? Loadlin perhaps? Or I just have to rip the HDD out, put it in a modern laptop and install from there? Thanks. PS Atticware... hilarious and very appropriate name, sarah |
Boot using the PCMCIA cdrom, then install frugal to the HD
It will install lilo bootloader and it will then boot from the HD next time
Brian
AwPhuch
Posted by Goober on Oct. 01 2005,04:23
School got hellishly busy for me, so plans for installing DSL on the Laptop got shelved. I am getting a different one with a CDROM Drive, but I think I can barely install Ubuntu on that. Thanks for all the assistance anyway.I will be installing DSL on my Desktop to mess around with it, but I think it will be fairly easy, I've got the space for it ready and everything. If I need help, well, I'lll ask you guys.