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Topic: Moving Forward - What's Your Desire?, Please Vote

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jpeters

Group: Members
Posts: 804
Joined: April 2006

Posted: May 10 2007,00:59

..and it gets even better if you don't use windows (faster, cleaner, cheaper).

Note: I also own a windows computer for specific functions (recording studio, etc), mostly because I haven't found the need to go pure linux.
I've also spent endless hours going through registries and reconfiguring windows systems that suddenly stop working. With DSL, you just boot up another copy......can't get much easier than that.

hugglebear Offline

Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: July 2006

Posted: May 23 2007,10:06

I believe DSL to be the future of computing!

In the future we won't need to carry laptops etc, we will just plug in to a dumb terminal and go. DSL provides this environment already..... Almost!

THREE IDEAS

1. Make it work!

If a version of DSL can be created that works on EVERY computer, then the job is done. I have problems with my sound card and printer which I will address in other posts, but these are problems I simply don't care to have. When an idiot like me powers up his PC, he just wants it to freakin' work. He doesn't care why, where or how, and will go to whoever can provide this.

I would imagine that the way forward could be accomplished by simply leaving out ALL applications that are not requisite to boot/install DSL. Why waste space including editors, graphic programs, office apps etc... when they could all be downloaded via MyDSL. If you need it, then download it!

For me the flexibility of the MyDSL feature, is one of DSL's strongest points, and could be more fully realized.

2. Let the DSL community help!

DSL is already well known in Linux circles, but the market is not in preaching to the converted. If we can convince just a tiny part of MS users to switch to a fast, safe and secure environment (which shouldn't be too hard, now should it?), then DSL's future will be secure.

But how?

I would like to become the official Central European Distributor of DSL (unless of course you have one already). I believe in DSL, and I am quite prepared to stand for hours at a car boot sale, market and Internet cafe's etc... selling it, I believe others are too. So let me/us help finance your fantastic work by setting up a program that allows official distributors a bulk price on the DSL Biz Card CD. This would allow the DSL community to make a small profit from each sale and help finance DSL's development. The distributor should not be allowed to price his stock over that of DSL, thereby (I believe) keeping the integrity of EULA. If the licence were to be compromised by this, then perhaps letting each distributor add his own user manual with translation where required, adding value!

3. You're gonna' hate me for this!

Make DSL more Windowish. There, I said it!!! Now I don't mean that you should use your hard earned dollars developing a blue screen of death, rather make DSL FEEL like Windows without taking away the control, power and flexibility of Linux.

Windows: This is like a brand new car that doesn't work. It looks great, but what the hell use is it!
Linux: Purrs like Ferrari, but has a bitch of a learning curve if coming from Windows. (I overheard someone saying that "Life is to short for Linux")

So here comes the rocket science.... Take the good and leave the bad!

Freespire has achieved this! But it doesn't have that orgasmic Toram cheatcode making my PC work like lightning, nor the "OS in your pocket" style 50mb biz card CD. They have also set a phenomenal benchmark. Simply go to the freespire Wiki (http://wiki.freespire.org/index.php/The_Perfect_Desktop_Linux_OS)

At the bottom you'll find this challenge...

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"How does YOUR desktop Linux system stack up? To test it and find out, go to this test page (http://www.linspire.com/products_linspire_whatis.php?tab=compatibility) , and start clicking on each of the links. How did it do? Did it handle all the different file types and multimedia formats? Did it play everything in-line, and properly?

With Freespire, all of the links will work, without any additional software or tricky "clickety-clack" required."

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I think that DSL could pick up this gauntlet and smack Freespire in the face with it, but I don't know all the extensions I need to download from the repository in order to achieve this, Do you? A DSL wiki page on this subject may well be a good idea.

Of course it maybe that I'm riding the wrong horse, and should suggest to Freespire to include the magical features of DSL...!

But I'm here, and I am ready to do battle to help DSL become the most popular/ easy to use Linux distribution, and who knows, perhaps we can all make a few bucks along the way.

What say Ye?

lucky13

Group: Members
Posts: 1478
Joined: Feb. 2007

Posted: May 23 2007,15:07

Linspire fanboy wrote:

Quote

1. Make it work!

It does. The problem with making it work on "EVERY computer" comes down to hardware issues, not software issues. You should direct this point to hardware manufacturers who refuse to open their drivers so people who buy their products aren't locked in to one (Windows) or two (Mac) particular platforms. Better yet, don't buy stuff that doesn't play nice with whatever OS(es) you choose to run. And I'll go a step further and say, Don't support distros like Mint and Linspire that support closed hardware because it only encourages vendors to sell closed hardware.

Quote

2. Let the DSL community help!

That's what this forum is all about.

Quote

I am quite prepared to stand for hours at a car boot sale, market and Internet cafe's etc... selling it, I believe others are too.

Some of us believe in DSL enough that we choose to make copies and give them away. There's nothing to stop you from trying to make money off the work of others, but I encourage you to give free copies to a few friends and ask them to do the same if you (and they) really believe in it.

Quote

The distributor should not be allowed to price his stock over that of DSL, thereby (I believe) keeping the integrity of EULA.

Here's the "EULA": http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html

Quote

Make DSL more Windowish.

No. Hell no.

Quote

Freespire has achieved this!

Good for Freespire. Why should DSL do what others are already doing? Go sell Freespire out of your car instead.

Quote

(re: Freespire's "challenge") How does YOUR desktop Linux system stack up?

Well enough. Freespite/Linspire supports closed-source hardware and software. DSL can do a lot of that if the right extensions are added. I disagree with those who think a GNU-Linux distribution should include closed-source drivers and software by default; that should be left to the end user to add if he or she wants it.

Quote

With Freespire, all of the links will work, without any additional software or tricky "clickety-clack" required."

Then that's what you should peddle instead of DSL. Adding extensions isn't "clickety-clack" and I don't think it's DSL's responsibility to support closed-source code like Flash, Real Audio, Windows Media formats, Apple's AAC, etc.

Quote

But I'm here, and I am ready to do battle to help DSL become the most popular/ easy to use Linux distribution, and who knows, perhaps we can all make a few bucks along the way.

"Do battle"? Other than asking the developers to bloat the code with proprietary codecs (so DSL can play certain media files and web content like Flash out of the box), just how do you intend to "help DSL" become more popular? By selling it? When it's already free?

Quote

I think that DSL could pick up this gauntlet and smack Freespire in the face with it...

Did you read system requirements for Lin/Freespire?

# PC with 800 MHz or higher processor
# 128 MB of RAM (256 MB or higher recommended for best performance)
# Hard drive with 4 GB free space
And there's more they recommend!
http://www.linspire.com/products_linspire_whatis.php?tab=systemreq

In comparison, DSL can run on a 486. DSL can run on 16MB RAM, and can be loaded to RAM on systems with 256+RAM. DSL can be run off a CD, off a USB thumbdrive, or embedded in another OS. It doesn't require 4GB on a hard drive, either -- try 50MB, plus a reasonable swap partition, and however much a user wants to add for /home. Even a traditional Debian-style installation of DSL only needs ~200MB, far less than Linspire requires.

Face it: DSL kicks Freespire's fat, bloated ass. Users shouldn't be locked out of using Linux because it requires 800+Mhz chips, 256MB RAM, and at least 4GB space on a hard drive. I'm for making things easier for all users, but Freespire should aspire to DSL's standards on running on smaller and older systems and not the other way around. There's no such thing as an obsolete computer -- there are just bloated operating systems. DSL shouldn't become yet another one.

--------------
"It felt kind of like having a pitbull terrier on my rear end."
-- meo (copyright(c)2008, all rights reserved)

mikshaw

Group: Members
Posts: 4856
Joined: July 2004

Posted: May 23 2007,15:40

1. Your wish for it to "just work" on all hardware is a common one. However, unlike Mac, Windows, SGI, or whatever other machines that are designed for a specific operating system, Linux doesn't have hardware manufacturers catering to it, so many times developers must use a trial-and-error approach to writing drivers.
Secondly, DSL has a 50mb size limit. I'm not sure it would be possible to include drivers and boot-time checks for all available hardware. Basically, there is no way you can please everyone....something has to be left out. Besides, even Windows doesn't always "just work" when it comes to hardware. I've had to manually install more drivers for Windows than for Linux over the years, because Windows tends to drop support for older hardware when they release new versions.
Third, how come no one wants to bother learning something about their operating system anymore? Just about everyone I know understands how their cars work, and can fix minor problems, but when it comes to computers they are completely clueless. One of the main things to consider when installing Linux is what hardware you have. Do a little research; find out whether your hardware is supported by open source drivers. If you have a device that is not supported, or is poorly supported, spending a few bucks on something else will save you a lot of trouble. What it comes down to is that the Linux community is not at fault if your hardware doesn't work. Many hardware manufactures keep their specs a highly guarded secret.

2. Linux, including DSL, is an open-souce community project. This means you already have the permission to distribute it. You don't need permission, because it is already granted.
However, you MUST read and understand the General Public License before you begin distributing DSL. Some of your comments lead me to believe that you do not understand the concept of software freedom as defined by the GPL and the Free Software Foundation. The GPL is the deciding authority of how DSL can be distributed, not the DSL developers (apart from possible trademarks). As far as I know, everything in DSL is comes under GPL-compatible license. Also, please refrain from the use of the term "EULA" when referring to open source projects...it will piss off a lot of people.

3. For pete's sake, NO!
This topic regularly comes up in every Linux forum all over the world, and it is usually (always?) posted by someone who is accustomed to using Windows. The response is usually an emphatic "Linux Is Not Windows":
http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
Freespire (Linspire) was developed to look and feel like Windows. DSL was not. If you want the look and feel of Windows, use Windows or a clone of Windows. Otherwise, please learn the strengths of Linux.

--------------
http://www.tldp.org/LDP/intro-linux/html/index.html

jpeters

Group: Members
Posts: 804
Joined: April 2006

Posted: May 24 2007,08:10

Quote (mikshaw @ May 23 2007,11:40)

If you want the look and feel of Windows, use Windows or a clone of Windows. Otherwise, please learn the strengths of Linux.

I just spent about 2 days trying to get a Windows XP computer working again. First, you need about 4 different programs to keep removing adware, spyware, worms, various viruses, etc., in addition to your firewalls, etc. Also, a registry cleaner is required. All these programs need to be constantly updated, and eventually start doing more damage to the OS than what they were initially intended to prevent. Next, the uninstallers frequently don't work, requiring the user to manually go into safe mode, and then prune the registry after deleting files in the directory. One damaged systems file somewhere, and the OS starts crashing on boot, sometimes requiring reinstalling the OS and starting all over (which can take hours).

The most I've had to do with DSL is boot a backup disk. I suppose if I really wanted the look and feel of Windows, I could throw the computer down the stairs, jump on it few times, and hopefully get the thing to keep crashing and generating blue screens. It would also be important to have a little hour glass go off every time you click on something.

95 replies since Mar. 30 2007,18:13

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