iB::Topic::Why do I still do regular HD installs of DSL?

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Topic: Why do I still do regular HD installs of DSL?, learning and educating

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dwk

Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: Jan. 2007

Posted: Jan. 13 2007,12:12

I also have a low-spec system. I've just done a full intall, and I'm very pleased with DSL. Now I hear about something called frugal, which apparently I should have done instead. I don't understand frugal. What's the deal with backup/restore? It sounds as if frugal wipes the hard drive clean each time it reboots and needs auto-backup/restore as a workaround, or something like that. I don't get it, and at any rate, that doesn't sound very efficient. And what the devil is /opt, etc. directory persistence? What does that mean? If I lose everything else on reboot, then won't I also lose my data? And if I don't lose my data, then how come people say that frugal doesn't allow installing non-myDSL apps?

Like I said, I don't get it, and I can't find any docs which clear it up in my mind. I've seen plenty of docs telling me how good frugal is and how to install it, but that's not much help to me - once I've installed it, how do I cope with it? What extra stuff do I need to do? What "extra stuff" does it do on startup/shutdown/mode5? Is it faster or slower? Does it require more or less ram? Does it require more or less hd space? Can I still get by with a single partition?

All this needs in one or two paragraphs on the home page, explaining how it works in plain english, in the same way as you can find pages explaining how different RAID configs work, etc. 'Cause in the mean time, I don't get it, so what hope has a total noob got?

mikshaw

Group: Members
Posts: 4856
Joined: July 2004

Posted: Jan. 13 2007,13:36

dwk: You seem to have misunderstood everything you've read about frugal.

The simple answer:
Frugal is the same as a live cd, except the compressed image runs from harddrive instead of a cdrom.

Extendend answer more specific to your post:

Quote

It sounds as if frugal wipes the hard drive clean each time it reboots

Not at all. Frugal doesn't touch the harddrive after installation unless you voluntarily access the drive yourself. The writable portions of the system are running in memory.

Quote

what the devil is /opt, etc. directory persistence?

By using a particular boot option you can force the DSL system to use a /home or /opt (or both) directory on a persistent partition instead of in ram. This frugal-traditional hybrid setup allows you to avoid the need to keep a backup of personal files.

Quote

once I've installed it, how do I cope with it?

It behaves the same as a live cd. If you know how to manage DSL as a live cd, you know how to manage frugal. Extra documentation would be redundant.

--------------
http://www.tldp.org/LDP/intro-linux/html/index.html

dwk

Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: Jan. 2007

Posted: Jan. 13 2007,14:03

Quote (mikshaw @ Jan. 13 2007,08:36)

dwk: You seem to have misunderstood everything you've read about frugal.

I believe you

But if any contributors are looking to understand why more people aren't using frugal, and even reviewers seem oblivious to it, then my case can't be that uncommon - as for me, I've been running and installing various linux distros for about 7 years, but this frugal thing is totally novel to any operating system, so any extra documentation, redundant or not, couldn't go astray imho. (the poll agrees with me

)

And another thing, if I may be so bold as to venture my own opinion; I think "Frugal" is the wrong name for it. When I was looking at the intallation menu, I spent all of 30s trying to decide what the difference was between the different options. I took the literal, english definition of Frugal, and assumed that it meant some kind of frugal, minimalistic installation, maybe with bash and nothing else. (It's all very well to say that it was all spelled out in the docs - not everyone has time to read the docs for every single distro, and having a counter-intuitive name doesn't help)

Perhaps if it were given a new name, like "Live Install" or "HD Protected install" or something, then there'd be a lot less less confusion.
Or better still, if frugal is so good, why not just make that the default "HD install" or "new DSL-style HD install," and label the old hd install option as "traditional Debian-style HD install" or something similar suggesting its deprecated state.

just my 2c.

^thehatsrule^ Offline

Group: Members
Posts: 3275
Joined: July 2006

Posted: Jan. 13 2007,16:28

I believe the frugal could refer to the 50mb limit that really advertises DSL.

Although I agree that it can be confusing to the first-time user who's trying to install, one should read the docs first anyways :P

roberts

Group: Members
Posts: 4983
Joined: Oct. 2003

Posted: Jan. 13 2007,16:50

Quote

Or better still, if frugal is so good, why not just make that the default "HD install" or "new DSL-style HD install," and label the old hd install option as "traditional Debian-style HD install" or something similar suggesting its deprecated state.

That's exactly what we do call it, "Traditional Debian HD Install" And that, my friend, is not the focus of DSL. It is supported, but not the focus.

You can read my design decisions for DSL here.

Everyone does hard drive installs, why would I want to do the same thing. When I was at the Linux World Show, I was told the following by one of the major vendors ... "every distro is just another re-hash collection of FOSS put togther, assembled, by you and everyone else, What makes you thing that you are any different".

Well, we are.. And I am still having fun doing it!

As far as documentation goes, we are not thousands, or hundreds, or even tens of developers. We have no commercial backing. But, what we do have is a great community, that actively helps support and contribute to DSL, by answering questions in the forums, creating mydsl extensions, and having very great discussions on technical areas of DSL.

92 replies since May 16 2005,16:25

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