iB::Topic::Why do I still do regular HD installs of DSL?

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Topic: Why do I still do regular HD installs of DSL?, learning and educating

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WDef

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Posts: 798
Joined: Sep. 2005

Posted: Feb. 09 2007,16:04

Quote

I'd probably side with most of dwk's comments

CBagger1 also said much the same thing ages ago - promote frugal but don't remove the hd option.

Where is he anyway? Does anybody know?

jrev

Group: Members
Posts: 15
Joined: Aug. 2005

Posted: Feb. 12 2007,09:54

Quote (dwk @ Jan. 13 2007,09:03)

Quote (mikshaw @ Jan. 13 2007,08:36)

dwk: You seem to have misunderstood everything you've read about frugal.

I believe you

But if any contributors are looking to understand why more people aren't using frugal, and even reviewers seem oblivious to it, then my case can't be that uncommon - as for me, I've been running and installing various linux distros for about 7 years, but this frugal thing is totally novel to any operating system, so any extra documentation, redundant or not, couldn't go astray imho. (the poll agrees with me

)

And another thing, if I may be so bold as to venture my own opinion; I think "Frugal" is the wrong name for it. When I was looking at the intallation menu, I spent all of 30s trying to decide what the difference was between the different options. I took the literal, english definition of Frugal, and assumed that it meant some kind of frugal, minimalistic installation, maybe with bash and nothing else. (It's all very well to say that it was all spelled out in the docs - not everyone has time to read the docs for every single distro, and having a counter-intuitive name doesn't help)

Perhaps if it were given a new name, like "Live Install" or "HD Protected install" or something, then there'd be a lot less less confusion.
Or better still, if frugal is so good, why not just make that the default "HD install" or "new DSL-style HD install," and label the old hd install option as "traditional Debian-style HD install" or something similar suggesting its deprecated state.

just my 2c.

I fully agree to that !

It's a pity the newcomer is not afforded a simple step by step guide to the most efficient way of using the latest versions of DSL (call it as you wish, but don't change names too often !)
:cool:

It wouldn't be that difficult to follow I assume
:cool:

And we would be able after that to make some changes according to our peculiar situation
:cool:

lucky13

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Posts: 1478
Joined: Feb. 2007

Posted: Feb. 14 2007,16:03

Quote (jrev @ Feb. 12 2007,04:54)

It's a pity the newcomer is not afforded a simple step by step guide to the most efficient way of using the latest versions of DSL (call it as you wish, but don't change names too often !)
:cool:

DWK suggested reviewers are oblivious to frugal installation. Every article/review I've read about DSL has noted what frugal installation is and what its benefits are.

The frugal install concept isn't novel at all, but my saying that assumes you have the same familiarity with the concept of installing and booting from an ISO image installed on a hard drive or thumbdrive. I immediately thought "frugal" was close enough to the Knoppix "poor man" that people would get it if they were familiar with Knoppix since it's the live CD most people are familiar with. Regardless, I certainly knew what frugal install was when I read the documentation.

I think the problem is, most people burn the ISO, immediately pop it in, see that it works, and never bother reading the documentation before they start making system changes (installation). Since they don't bother reading, they make their own presumptions like DWK did and get all trigger happy and commence to doing things they should have a better idea about before they do a thing.

Presumptions about what people do or don't understand don't matter. They should always read the available documentation from the website. There's sufficient detail about the differences between frugal and hd installs available on the site. The developers and other DSL users can't make anyone read the available documentation. That's the user's own responsibility. It's not the developers' or community's "problem" when people aren't willing to read the documentation to understand their options and what they actually mean.

Accordingly, you can call it ISO-install, image-install, poor-man's install, DSL concept install, frugal install, or anything you want but it won't make any difference unless someone actually bothers to read the documentation to understand what it means and what the pros and cons are. It's not the name that's the problem, it's the trigger happy users.

--------------
"It felt kind of like having a pitbull terrier on my rear end."
-- meo (copyright(c)2008, all rights reserved)

brianw

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Posts: 245
Joined: Sep. 2005

Posted: Feb. 18 2007,03:01

Call it whatever you want I still don't do frugal installs. First you must have an operating system installed to boot (be it dos, windows, linux, whatever), then you must run the os in ram. I do like the live cd when I need it but the speed of the HD install is everything. Also the ability to add other apps besides the ones dsl supporters have contributed are very important. Both installs have there strengths and weaknesess and both have specific uses. To call people who do a regular HD install out dated is like stating that the electricity grid is outdated because someone has a solar panel. It just isn't true (and coming from someone who does alot of off grid living that means alot).

The regular HD install offers speed and expandibility that a frugal install can't. The frugal install offers security and base OS protection that most people don't need or expect.

I just purchased a P4 2Ghz laptop and have winXP (for work), Ubunto (for the apps) and DSL 3.2 installed. I almost gave up on 3.2 and went back to 3.0 because 3.2 is not very HD install friendly. I persisted but still might go back because 3.2 is not what I expect from an OS. I like the ease of use of the earlier DSL versions. I will probably try Xbunto soon. I tried DSL N but could not seem to get aptget to work very well which is important to me.

DSL is a very good distro but there seems to be alot of focus on forcing people to not do regular HD installs. That only hurts DSL not help. I have been using unix since college and have used windows on an as needed basis, I support it, work with it, but I prefer Linux. I like DSL but will use it the way I am comfortable in using it not the way someone else is.

roberts

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Posts: 4983
Joined: Oct. 2003

Posted: Feb. 18 2007,05:06

I take issue with the claim of "forcing users"

DSL is about choices:

Traditional Hard Install,
LiveCD
Poormans
Frugal

Isolinux
Syslinux
Lilo
Grub
Loadlin
LinLd

Boot floppy
Boot floppy fromusb
Boot floppy frompcmcia
Boot floppy fromzipdrive

Unionfs
Legacy

.tar.gz
.dsl
.uci
.unc
.deb

Pendrive Installs
CompactFlash Installs
Virtualization with Qemu or VmWare

Alot of choices, beyond the typical traditional hard installation, for a sub 50MB distribution.

And nobody is "forcing" anybody on which of these choices to deploy.

If you chose to deploy only traditonal hard installation and use debs, so be it.

On the other hand, I, as a developer of DSL, wish to spend my time on new things. Exploring new ways. Extending capbilities to running compressed type installs, and using compressed mountable self contained applications, I will do that. If I was restricted in what I wanted to offer. I would not be here.

If the community wishes to write about such. To educate those who would not be aware of these other capabilites, then that is great. These forums are about sharing knowledge.

But nobody is forcing anybody on how to run their system.

Explore and have fun in the many ways of DSL.

92 replies since May 16 2005,16:25

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