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Topic: Usage of murgaLua by DSL, FYI

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roberts

Group: Members
Posts: 4983
Joined: Oct. 2003

Posted: June 19 2008,16:08

But we are using it and promoting it. It is called murgalua-fltk.so.0.6.8.
It is not called luafltk.so.0.6.8 which I would not have accepted.

JM should have contacted me privately, he still has not. Then the facts could have been presented and the principals invloved could have handled this matter.

JM has put me in a defensive position. My posts have been factual and not imflamatory to him or anyone else. But now I feel I must post publicly the facts regarding this matter.

I think I have remained rather calm given the slur and accusation that JM posted about me and DSL and not only here but on his site and Puppy forums.

lucky13

Group: Members
Posts: 1478
Joined: Feb. 2007

Posted: June 19 2008,16:09

Quote

I think the feelings involve a separate issue.

They appear to be front and center of the problem Murga has with all of this. He was free to choose any license he wanted for his code. He chose one which gives users distinct freedoms to use it as they -- the users -- choose. And in whole or in part at their own discretion, not his, so long as they comply with the rest of the terms of said license.

Despite his protests, it appears DSL has complied with the terms of the GPL. I've asked him several times to explain what was wrong and what it would take to correct it, and whether this was the appropriate way in which to handle it. You can see yourself how he chose to handle it.

He has to learn to control himself and do things in a manner in which he can handle consequences. One of the consequences of using GPL is you're openly giving liberties to your users. Murga wants to restrict users instead. That's inconsistent with the license no matter what his feelings are about it. I don't see Linus Torvalds going completely apesh*t when people don't compile certain drivers or include certain pieces of kernel source in their kernels. He gives them the right to choose for themselves how to set up their own systems. Murga doesn't seem mature enough to let others do the same with his code.

If Murga is this thin-skinned about others' freedom, he really needs to find something else to do. Or at least other ways of dealing with his frustrations without lashing out at those to whom he offers both code and the freedoms to use it as they see fit.

--------------
"It felt kind of like having a pitbull terrier on my rear end."
-- meo (copyright(c)2008, all rights reserved)

lucky13

Group: Members
Posts: 1478
Joined: Feb. 2007

Posted: June 19 2008,16:29

@mikshaw: Thanks for the links.

I'm no more a fan of GPL than I am of proprietary licenses -- both are products of the same mentality, different sides of a single coin. I accept everyone has a right to choose how to license one's own code and every one has a right to choose to use anyone else's software with respect to any restrictions imposed. It's all about what one is willing to put up with on either side (developer, user) of the equation.

If "freedom" is your goal, I think BSD is more about it than GPL. Dittos for MIT/X and other licenses that give users freedom without restrictions.

I comply with Microsoft's licenses because I respect their right to do whatever they want with their own code. I comply with GPL because I believe each developer has a right to choose it if he or she wants. I comply with Creative Commons regardless of variation because authors' and musicians' and artists' rights and wishes should be defended and protected rather than infringed. I respect RIAA and the copyrights they seek to protect against piracy for the same reason I respect Creative Commons.

With respect to this issue, we didn't choose GPL. Murga did. As far as I can tell, DSL hasn't violated the GPL. That's what matters here. If DSL isn't in compliance, that needs to be fixed. The way Murga has chosen to go about this really isn't very productive. He's the one who chose this route. Not the DSL developers or community.

--------------
"It felt kind of like having a pitbull terrier on my rear end."
-- meo (copyright(c)2008, all rights reserved)

JohnMurga

Group: Members
Posts: 23
Joined: Aug. 2006

Posted: June 19 2008,16:38

Hi,

One of the first things I did was send messages to Robert and John at their
publicly available email addresses (@damnsmalllinux.org), these have so far
been ignored.

I have to said I am pretty surprised at the contempt to issues outside your
own interests. But the fact remains you have violated the GPL in how you
distributed murgaLua code that I wrote.

You took a program that was command-line, and removed the parts that
you didn't want … Which is fine except for the fact that you also removed
the copyright messages and attributions ... And you went on to distribute
this to the world.

How you got the modified software is largely irrelevant, just as you wouldn't
be able to include any other copyrighted work just because it came from an
external site (like a warez site for instance).

Remedial action is to remove the infraction and formally apologize.

My takedown notices should take care of the existing infractions.

At the moment you are stealing my intellectual property.

Any future association is out of the question as I really do not want be involved
in any way with people who engage in such practices … As it is the future of
the affected work is under threat anyway - You probably killed the project.

Please be advised that I'll be seeking to recover any administration costs
and legal fees I will incur as a result of getting you to comply with the law
(I just found out how expensive legal advice in the states is).

Right now you are leaving me only one path to follow.

I wish that wasn't the case.

The documentation that has been filed with the appropriate organizations
can be found here :

http://www.murga-projects.com/murgaLua/infraction-details.txt
http://www.murga-projects.com/murgaLu....les.txt

Without prejudice
JohnM

PS
I have a long track record of involvement with open source and community
projects and have never done any of it for personal gain (or actually had
these kinds of issues before). Anyone who is interested can verify this for
themselves …
I have nothing to prove, I just need you to stop the infraction of MY rights.

lucky13

Group: Members
Posts: 1478
Joined: Feb. 2007

Posted: June 19 2008,16:54

Quote

Any future association is out of the question...

Can't speak for John and Robert, but I'm pretty sure there's mutual agreement on that point.

Quote

(I just found out how expensive legal advice in the states is).

You probably should've sought such advice before you chose the GPL, and certainly before you decided to handle this matter in this manner. As it now stands, you have a lengthy written record boasting about your "fight" on other websites -- screenshots and mirrors of which are being maintained should anyone need them to demonstrate both your state of mind and your desire for conflict rather than resolution.

Quote

Right now you are leaving me only one path to follow.

You set out on that path all by yourself yesterday. The whole world is watching.

--------------
"It felt kind of like having a pitbull terrier on my rear end."
-- meo (copyright(c)2008, all rights reserved)

54 replies since June 18 2008,19:12

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